'Thriving in the Sandwich Generation' (with Christy Byrne Yates)

Caught between your everyday stressors and the ever-present reminders of the ticking of The Clock. Christy Byrne Yates talks to us about the Sandwich Generation: that precarious chapter of life spent caring for your own children and your aging parents. It's all things love, death, grief, and hard conversations with family in this episode of Grandpa & Chill. Her book, Building a Legacy of Love: Thriving in the Sandwich Generation, is available now on Amazon.

Thanks to our Amazing Guest: Christy Byrne Yates
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Transcript

[Brandon]: 0:45

that. Hi, I'm Brandon Fox. This is another episode of Grandpa and Chill. I'm here with our amazing co-host, as always, Phines, our amazing producer, Sierra, and we have Grandpa Abort on the program as well.

[Grandpa Bart]: 0:59

And you can't get rid of me because I'm part of the name.

[Brandon]: 1:02

Yeah, we're gonna have chill next week. We're so excited to have today. Kristy, thank you so much for being here.[Christy Byrne Yates]: Sure, I'm excited to Yeah, could you tell the audience just a little bit about yourself and sort of your expertise?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:20

Yeah, absolutely. So I am a mother, a daughter, a wife, but most recently I have become an author and I wrote a book about living in the sandwich generation, which is people raising children while also caring for aging loved ones. Usually parents could be other people and being squeezed in the middle there. I'm a retired school psychologist, so I sort of that whole phenomenon through the lens of what it also does for the family and how it affects kids because I went through this. I was a sandwich generation parent. And in 2015, I lost both my parents seven weeks apart. Both of them had some form of dementia. My mother had Alzheimer's, my dad had vascular dementia. And me and my family cared for them for the last six years of their life. And it was tough. It was really hard. It was really hard on me as a parent to my own children. That was what really came up. You know, when you're really struggling with your parents sort of fading away, it can

[Brandon]: 2:31

Thank[Christy Byrne Yates]: impact

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 2:35

lens to the book and have been trying to start conversations about it. So, and in my book I... try to talk about what happened for me, but also what are some things you can look out for if you're someone who this is on the horizon. This is kind of the book you need before you know you need it. So it's a really hard sell. But you know, how do you have these difficult conversations? How do you have conversations about car keys? How do you have conversations about what do you want at the end of your life? That kind of thing. But those are the kinds of things that are really tricky in the sandwich generation. Plus you still have to kind of show up. for your kids and they're growing up and doing all the things. And then you're watching parents sort of fade away. So it's a tough squeeze. So that's what I talk about.

[Brandon]: 3:25

Not sure if you heard on the death doula episode, but Grandpa Bart, you know, after his kids were grown, his mother suffered from Alzheimer's.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 3:36

I did hear that. So you have, you have a, that was a great episode actually. I learned a lot from her. And, and so I'm not a, an expert on dementia or

[Brandon]: 3:49

Thank[Christy Byrne Yates]: Alzheimer's

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 3:49

per se in the way she was, but more in, like I said, the family dynamic. And most of the stuff that's out there for people right now who are caregivers, it talks about what to do for the person you're caring for. But in the meantime, if you're in the sandwich generation, you're still raising your kids. So if you're in this feeling of grief, watching your parents really struggle, that can show up in many ways. For me, it made me really irritable. And that's not a great way to be a parent, right? And my kids were wonderful. And they would say, Mom, you're being really mean. to grandma right now and I had to check myself. So it was really good. And I say that really because I think that's great that I raised kids who could gently say that to me. So that was a good thing. So, yeah.[Brandon]: Is the sandwich generation, is that No. Yeah, so I did not coin it. I don't really think it's a great term. I mean, it's really nebulous, isn't it? No, it was coined by a Dorothy Miller in the 1980s. She was a psychologist in I think New York area, and she was seeing a lot of people in the early 80s coming into our practice, these women who were just really stressed out with all of these things, all these different things they were handling. And she sort of coined it that way, that she saw people just being squeezed between two generations. And it sort of stuck. So it was already in the vernacular. So I couldn't really rebrand it. So kind of stuck with it. And yeah. And it's about really, latest research of people are having to care in some way for their aging parents while they still have kids in their home. Could be adult children, but they still have children in their home. So it's a lot of people.

[Brandon]: 6:04

Yeah.[Christy Byrne Yates]: and impacts our workforce

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 6:08

care give. That's another piece that really is impacting our whole economy and everything that's going on.

[Brandon]: 6:15

And that's 50% of the total populace of the US.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 6:19

Yeah,

[Brandon]: 6:20

Wow.[Christy Byrne Yates]: yeah. I mean, do you Yeah.[Phines]: Alright. I'm[Christy Byrne Yates]: yeah. sorry. Yeah.

[Phines]: 6:34

Bye!

[Brandon]: 6:35

And yeah, friends.

[Phines]: 6:37

No, no, go ahead, man. I'm sorry.

[Brandon]: 6:41

No, no, please, you go first.

[Phines]: 6:43

All right. So everybody, so I'm connecting. So everybody goes through the sandwich generation at some point. So it's like a transition through life kind of thing, right?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 6:57

We you know could be it could be it but if you think about it not everyone is because if you have siblings you may not be the one who's doing the major left with your parents right.

[Phines]: 7:09

Yeah.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 7:10

So my parents didn't live with me they actually they do a lot of really great things they had a trust they had their end of life plan all filled figured out long before they needed it so I didn't have to I had a roadmap it was great. That was the legacy of love that I call, that's the title of my book, that was the legacy left, they left me, is that they left me all those, what to do. But my, I wouldn't say my sister was in that, because she didn't do any of the heavy lifting, but I was the one who had the power of attorney and my parents lived 10 minutes away from me, so I went to every doctor appointment. I was the one that got them into assisted living when they needed it, when they were, so not everyone, but some people are. And then You know, there may be people who don't every person. But you know what? You bring up a good point. And when you say it's just a part of life, I think many years ago, it really was a part of life.

[Phines]: 8:09

Yeah. Well, yeah.[Christy Byrne Yates]: But then we became

[Brandon]: 8:11

you.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 8:12

really mobile society, you know?

[Phines]: 8:14

Yeah, because it's, well, at least when I first was hearing from it, I sound like, oh, this is like a transition through your life. That seems like the most hectic time though, because,

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 8:23

Yeah.

[Phines]: 8:24

um, especially if you're like, yeah, taking care of a family, you have a job and then you're taking care of your mother, your, your parents too. Um, and especially like you were saying mother, wife, daughter. Like, that's heavy. You know, like, ain't taking care, you know,

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 8:42

Yeah.

[Phines]: 8:42

who knows if you're taking care of the husband too, most of the time, but, you know, I won't go too far there. But also I was asking about, is 50% of Americans because of like the baby boomers? Is that why the number's so high right now?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 8:57

Well, there is that. I mean, there's just number wise, the boomer generation was a huge chunk of people, right? And so I can't remember the exact. The end of it is about 1964. So a lot of folks are really just starting now. I'm going to be 62, but I took early retirement to do some other things. But yeah, it's going to be a ton of people. And then the millennia, you know, Gen X and then Gen Y, millennials, there's smaller groups of people, that people stopped having so many kids. And so there wasn't this big baby boom, right? And, you know, Grandpa Bart, you're kind of the silent, that was the cat that just came to say hello. And you're part of a generation that is, is There aren't a lot of people from the silent generation left. My parents were part of the silent generation. So it's tough. So we're losing people. Yeah, are we gonna say something?

[Grandpa Bart]: 10:04

Well, I want to say my mother had, I guess, dementia. I'm not sure whether it was Alzheimer,[Phines]: We can't hear you, or[Phines]: I gotta

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 10:10

hear you.

[Grandpa Bart]: 10:12

Memory loss. Can you hear me now?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 10:13

Yeah,[Grandpa Bart]: Or no?

[Grandpa Bart]: 10:14

OK. And I didn't really have the day-to-day responsibilities because we had around-the-clock caregivers.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 10:24

Right.

[Grandpa Bart]: 10:24

But I didn't. But nevertheless, I really changed my life because I was living in Atlanta, Georgia. My mother was in suburban Philadelphia, and

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 10:35

right?[Grandpa Bart]: I had to come back, leave

[Grandpa Bart]: 10:43

And it really changed my life in quite a number of ways as far as a partner, as far

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 10:50

Right.

[Grandpa Bart]: 10:52

as my living situation and everything.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 10:54

Mm-hmm.

[Grandpa Bart]: 10:56

I had to take care of paying bills and insurance and shopping for food and so forth, but I didn't have the day-to-day responsibility like some people have, like it sounds as though you had.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 11:09

Right.

[Grandpa Bart]: 11:10

But um... My mother did not want to go into a care facility. In

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 11:17

Mm-hmm.[Grandpa Bart]: I took her to one, a very

[Grandpa Bart]: 11:20

home. She'll end up in ER. So, yeah, but I can understand where it would be very difficult if you've got children. I was already much older, but

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 11:30

Okay,[Grandpa Bart]: you have children,

[Grandpa Bart]: 11:31

and you have to take care of your children and help with the parent situation.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 11:38

And some of the things that have happened over, so like I said, you know, 50, even 100 years ago, 50 years ago, people stayed a little bit more closer to home, right? Where you were born is kind of where you ended up living for the rest of your life, maybe. But with, and maybe more than 50 years ago, I forget, right? Like it's so far out from where we were. But. We've become a really mobile society. So people, like you're talking about, you had to go home. And so people moved away. And so there isn't this multi-generational living, right, that we used to have. Now, I will also tell you, it's sort of cultural too, because I live in Sacramento, California. It's pretty diverse where I live. And there are families here from cultures where they wouldn't even recognize something called the sandwich generation, because of course, grandma and grandpa live with us. That's just the way it is. people live with us, you know, till they die. And so you might have a child in kindergarten and then you have, you know, grandma here who's taking care of the kids while mom goes to work. That's just a normal thing. But it's, but that doesn't mean it isn't a difficult thing. It just means that they might not see that as something significant. With the pandemic, we saw a lot of people kind of start rehousing together because mom and dad needed to be online and couldn't help kids with their online learning. So they might have moved, they might've had grandma and grandpa move in for a little bit to help them with all that. That kind of was a thing that happened. And then also women are having women and men are having their children a little later in life. So, you know, you, you might have your parents be in your eighties when you have young kids. And that's maybe not the way it was a hundred years ago, right? You, you had your babies a lot earlier. So, There's a lot of different factors that have kind of seen the increase. Um, and the other thing that people in that place have is, I was really fortunate that my parents were good stewards of their own money. Right? So I never had to pay for them for everything, but there were a, there are a lot of people out there that are paying, you know, a thousand dollars or more a month for the care of their parents. Plus, they might be having to go from full-time jobs to part-time jobs or leave their jobs entirely to do this caregiving because, and that's all unpaid. These are all unpaid caregivers. Most caregivers are not earning a salary. It's pretty tough, so.

[Grandpa Bart]: 14:19

advertisements on television Where or maybe it's private? Employment agencies, I'm not sure but they're kind of saying that you can get paid to take care of a family member

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 14:33

There are programs in many states that will do that. There are certain guidelines around that. Like you couldn't have any outside income. You as one of the caregivers, right? If you have a two income family, you could. But there are certainly some stipulations that make that a little bit difficult. The threshold for being able to do that might be a little hard for some folks. So they couldn't have a little side gig, doing something else online, which is a great way to make some money. But. I think there's definitely a push for more of that, just as there's a push for more funding to take care of younger kids, right? I think right now in Washington, DC, I heard today, there was a rally for more childcare money, so that zero to three, we can take care of some of our kids, so doing things like that. But it's just still a tight squeeze money-wise. And... And that's a big piece of it. I think for me, I look at, again, what's the impact on the whole family? And I want to say it's not all bad, right? I think my kids really had an opportunity. They were teenagers at the time. They had a real opportunity to live empathy and action, which is what compassion is, right, when we give to others from our empathetic feelings, we're actually being compassionate. And that can be a wonderful. thing that builds resilience. You know, it was beautiful to see how they interacted with my mom and dad and how they supported me. That was really important too. So it's not all bad.

[Grandpa Bart]: 16:12

well brandon got to come over to my home and spend a little time with my mother and he seemed to get along better with her than anybody else

[Brandon]: 16:24

Yeah, it was a really good and difficult experience. I mean, the last time I saw her, she was in, I guess, later stages of Alzheimer's, and,

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 16:34

Mm-hmm.[Brandon]: you know, I still took grandpa for

[Brandon]: 16:40

questions. She wasn't fully gone, but like, yeah, it was good and difficult for sure.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 16:47

Yeah. I mean, I think that's great that you had an opportunity to interact with her.

[Brandon]: 16:53

Yeah.[Christy Byrne Yates]: Yeah. Um, yeah grandpa. I can't hear[Grandpa Bart]: Why you.[Grandpa Bart]: couldn't you just tell your

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 17:06

tell my[Brandon]: Thank it's their responsibility to take care of my parents?

[Grandpa Bart]: 17:10

Yeah, yeah, I'm joking with you, yes.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 17:13

Trust me, I did sometimes, right? I was like, hey, you're driving now, can you take grandma to the store? Come on. And it was great. There were opportunities for that.

[Brandon]: 17:25

Yeah, I can't imagine how difficult it was with both parents. I, someone very close to me in my life just went through a death of a grandparent. And unfortunately in their experience, like the opposite sort of thing happened, where that person was the glue, and then their family unit sort of fell apart and actually got worse at the funeral and all that[Christy Byrne Yates]: Yeah. those

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 17:58

Yeah.[Brandon]: people don't talk anymore. Yeah, that's why I think it's that's why I think conversations are so important before you have to have them right so that's exactly right I mean family it you have to be very intentional. At some point to say hey listen you know grandma's kinda like you when you have that awareness you can start doing something about it but we're so busy in our lives we don't really even have the awareness that. you know, we might have to take care of somebody. I have to tell you, I was in, I was a school psychologist, so I worked a lot with people who, kids who had special needs all the time, that's what I did. And, and I still was in denial about my mother's Alzheimer's. I said, oh, she's not forgetful. She's just really worried about my dad, you know? And people were saying, Christy, you gotta, you gotta look at this. And when I did, I thought, oh, wow, see, I really overlooked that because I didn't want to see it. And, you know, that was my get real moment with myself. So it's easy. It's easy to be not aware of things. So, but once something came into my awareness, I really had an opportunity then to try and do what I could to shape my behavior, to do things that were going to be more helpful to my parents and to my. and to my kids and I listen guys I had a really great sweet situation because I had a good relationship with my parents. I had a loving husband who loved my parents too so and it was still hard so even though I had lots of and I have a sibling in Montana and a sibling in Michigan and they I had great relationships with them it was still hard so I can't of a bunch of Baggage, right? I mean, families

[Brandon]: 19:54

What

[Phines]: 19:55

Yeah.

[Brandon]: 19:56

the situation with you becoming the primary caretaker was that did that just happen or you sort of stepped up or?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 20:05

Yeah, no, I did not draw the short straw. I just happened to live five minutes away from them. So my parents lived in the Sacramento area. That's how we get elected. It is absolutely a location thing sometimes. And sometimes, honestly, sometimes the person who's closest is the worst. And that's something families should talk about. Like, that's a great conversation. Probably not at Thanksgiving dinner, but, you know, you want to have those conversations and say. What are we going to do? Mom and dad are getting kind of old. What are we going to do? You know, and how do we start talking to them about that? Because, um, we all know off into the sunset so we can kind of think about that ahead of time and not have it be this surprise that you don't think about. But yeah, no, I w I lived here and it was perfect. It was perfect for me. I enjoyed my parents a lot. We were, very close. My brother and sister were very supportive of me, but it was hard for them to get out here. They lived really far away. It was tough.

[Brandon]: 21:14

What were those early signs that you were ignoring?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 21:18

Yeah, well, my mom was very forgetful of everything. My dad had already started to decline. He had what's called vascular dementia. So he'd had a stroke in his early 60s. So by the time he was, you know, 78, 79, he was really having a hard time with a lot of things. Used to be a great conversationalist, really kind of his conversation got a lot more limited. And, and they both started to not have as much interaction in the world, right? So their worlds became a lot smaller. My mom stopped going to book club or things like that, or she'd forget, she'd forget about book club, or she forgot to read the book or something like that. But one of the real difficult ones was, my dad was on a bunch of different medication for hypertension and kidney issues, and I don't know, everything, right? And my mom would, he was on blood thinners because he'd had a stroke. And so she would move his pills around in his pill bottle. And I never knew what my dad was taking. So I would even put notes on there, like don't mess with dad's pills until you call me. You know, and she, I wouldn't hear from her, but

[Phines]: 22:40

Heh.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 22:40

I would check on them. And that's what scared me. So I then called. I actually had an assessment done for them. So I had someone come in and do a geriatric case manager team, came in and they said, this is a really, this is a serious issue, you know, you, they need supervision. Your dad needs this medication and your mom's moving it around. She doesn't even have any memory of doing that. So yeah, it can be scary.

[Brandon]: 23:11

So that's sort of the only true way is sort of to bring a professional in and have an assessment done.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 23:20

Well, I think that that's very helpful, right? I couldn't diagnose Alzheimer's.

[Brandon]: 23:27

Of course.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 23:29

Yeah, you know? So having that, what does that do for you? It gives you a starting point, right? And then other resources kind of open up for you. But most people don't know that, right? We don't know that, well, what do we do? So you might start with your medical professional and ask for some. some intervention and once they give a diagnosis like that or say this is a serious issue, they're going to start referring you to some resources and then you can start following up on some of those to find out what you need to do next. And that's where I think it's very hard to manage sometimes because you might not have all those resources available to you in your community based on where you live. far away, depending on what kind of health plan your parent might have. I mean, there's a lot of different things that kind of go into it. But yeah, I think having an assessment or some sort of professional giving you some guidance is really helpful rather than flying blind. I mean, you know that's kinda the way it was many years ago so it's not like it's the end of the world right but what it what's for me it was a matter of what kind of quality of life do i want for them do i hope for them at the end of their lives right um and then you know and that's i you know i joked earlier about car key conversations it was it was having that conversation with my dad about maybe it's time to stop driving you know and it's People don't really want to give that up because it's freedom, it's independence, it's a really, that's a hard one. I don't know if any of you have ever had to have that conversation or been in it, but it's a tough one.

[Brandon]: 25:21

Grandpa, you have experience, right?

[Grandpa Bart]: 25:26

Yeah,[Brandon]: Can you put the mic close to, my[Brandon]: I mother[Brandon]: can't driving and she left her car at a fast food restaurant and was hitchhiking home

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 25:34

Mm-hmm.[Grandpa Bart]: and fortunately my sister

[Grandpa Bart]: 25:40

correct idea that you have to take the car away from her and it really upset me at the time to think that she would lose that... ability to drive but you know it was the best thing to do so you know you make you have decisions that you have to make for the best.

[Brandon]: 26:02

Yeah.[Christy Byrne Yates]: Yeah.

[Phines]: 26:08

up.

[Brandon]: 26:09

I'm curious about the sort of, you know, I'm sure a ton of people have gone through your similar experience. Not everybody spends that in such a positive way, creates a book and sort of tries to help others. So I'm curious what that journey was like for you.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 26:28

Well, I think because[Brandon]: Thank you. one of the things that happened for me, like I said, my parents died seven weeks apart, which is not always unusual. But my mother, I always say she died last. And I think of it as a broken heart, but really she had a recurrence of cancer in her body that we were unaware of. She was, we didn't know, you know. because we were so focused on the Alzheimer's. But I had taken some family medical leave because it was just a lot. And, but I went back to work as a school psychologist about three weeks after she died, maybe two to three weeks after she died. And the minute I went back to school, I cannot tell you how many people started coming to me saying. Oh, Christy, what do we do about what? I'm in your shoes now. We just put my dad on hospice or my this or this, or how do I handle that? I was amazed at how many people didn't have, they didn't know what And I thought, well, I didn't know what to do. I just kind of made it up as I went along. But I'd spent years as a school psychologist. That's a lot of case management. And prior to that, I had worked. I had run programs in Los Angeles for men and women who are homeless. So I did a lot of program development and a lot of that kind of work. So I thought, you know, I know there's nothing that I was looking for help to, and I knew how to find some of it. But maybe I need to write a book because lots of people have questions and we're not talking about these things. So what can you do? So I just felt like I wrote the book that I wished I had, and that's what I did. So it was how to look at that journey. It was really, really hard, but I have to tell you looking back on it now, you know, I wish I could change a lot of things, but I'm glad that I had the opportunity to be with them at the end of their lives and help them. And I don't feel bad that my kids went through it with me. I think it was. in many ways really beautiful for them and they were old enough to be able to handle it. But it was hard. It was really hard. It was very hard on them in many ways.

[Brandon]: 28:57

How old were they?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 28:58

So they were, my son graduated high school

[Phines]: 29:02

Thank you.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 29:04

in 2015. So he was graduating high school and that he graduated in May and then my dad passed away in July. And then my daughter at that point, she was a sophomore in high school. This is another story I tell in the book is that my dad had passed away, it's summertime. July, my son was going off to college 2,000 miles away. He went to school in Ohio. And literally, I was in the hospital with my mom with, we thought she had pneumonia, and turns out she had something called pleural effusion. So her lungs were being compressed by this fluid in her lungs that was due to cancer. She'd had breast cancer many years ago, and they found breast cancer cells in this fluid. So... I had to make a decision. I had plane tickets to go with my husband and my son to take him to college. And I've got my mom in the hospital. What do I do? Is it my mom? Is it my son? And that choice was gut wrenching. Like, what do I do? And I cried to everybody I knew. I didn't know what to do. And I called different people. And then I really just sort of centered myself. And I said, the p-----. The person I wanted to ask was my mom. Like, mom, what would you do in this situation? And I knew she couldn't answer that, right? But I also knew that the mom I grew up with would tell me, go with your son. Are you crazy? Go with your son. So I found people to be there with her. She was living in assisted living, but I made sure I covered all my bases. I had people come visit towns so that they could be with her. And I went. take my son to college with my husband and it was a great experience and I'm glad I did it and then when I came back I took medical leave, I took family medical leave and spent the rest of that time with my mom. But those kinds of choices being pulled between your parent and your child, they're not always that dramatic but that's a perfect example of being pulled in two different directions.

[Phines]: 31:14

Yeah. Wow.[Grandpa Bart]: And that can happen a lot

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 31:18

Yeah, yeah. Sure can. They're tough times.

[Phines]: 31:28

Cool, I love listening because I get lots of my questions answered. So this is great. I do want to talk about or ask more about the family dynamic and you kind of hit on priorities and what's kind of like the priority to do and what's like, you know, what's, you know, when and what's not. But I want to talk about family dynamic. And I remember very, very early, you were talking about how you show up as a parent and how you were able to show up as a parent. But again, you kind of answered that question. So I don't know if you want to go on that again. And what else? Oh, resources, yes. In your book, like, are there, do you talk about resources in your book and how people reach them and how people get to them? Because that seems like something that's important. And of course,

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 32:20

Yeah.[Phines]: always. community is such a big deal.

[Phines]: 32:26

think community is a big, I think there's like all this, I was like, yeah, community, that, you can call it morbid on me, but I think it's really cool that your kids and you and your family get to see life together. Like, you know, like the beginning to the end of it. And they at least, you at least do it together and we all get to see it. And yeah, call it whatever, but 17 to 15 is a beautiful age to start understanding that type of stuff and start

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 32:59

Mm-hmm.[Phines]: living through it. You know, it's because that is real life, right? That's real life. We're born and everything that is alive will die. So we have to kind of be open to that and realize it. And that doesn't mean we just have to, because grief is a really significant thing. And I do talk a lot in the book about grief and how you handle it with kids of different ages. That's my expertise as kids and how they handle different things. So that's why I focused a little bit on that. In terms of family dynamics, I think, like I said, I had a really, I had a lot of really good things going for me. But in doing this, writing this book, I did some research and I interviewed different people and I really, I found a lot of situations that are not like that. So what do you do when you're asked or you feel that you must take care of a parent that maybe you didn't have a good relationship with, right? Like maybe they were abusive. Maybe they were, you had to parent them for most of their life. That comes up a lot and you maybe you don't have to, maybe you do what you can and you set those boundaries because that might be too much for you to do that. And that's. But thinking about that and making a conscious decision about that is really important. Otherwise, when people get sucked into taking care of someone that they had a really difficult relationship with, if you then also have kids, what are you passing along, right? And so I always say, and this is going to sound so corny, but I always say lead with love. And if it's not love for your parent, then show up with love so that your kids see. how to be compassionate, even for people that maybe we didn't always like. You know, we can still have compassion for someone. Because my kids saw how I took care of my parents. And sometimes I wasn't, sometimes I wasn't pleasant. I got irritated. I got irritated with some things. And that's when they'd say, Mom, you know, and I, and I had to come to terms with that's me and my grief. I was already grieving the loss of who they were. And I had to change, because I'm also training my kids on what they're gonna do for me someday, right? Do I want them to be irritable with me? Probably not, you know, so.

[Phines]: 35:40

Yeah, you know[Christy Byrne Yates]: But, Cause I was doing the math too. I was like, all right, 2015, going back to work, people asking all these questions, writing a book. It's only been like eight years. How are you doing? How are you holding[Christy Byrne Yates]: I know. up through all this? Cause I just imagine coming out of, my parents passed seven weeks apart from each other. All right, okay, that sucks. And then I go back to work and everybody's[Christy Byrne Yates]: Yeah. wherewithal to be like, you know what, I want to write a book is pretty big because I think I would have had a book of customers maybe. So that's cool.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 36:19

I had that too. I had the cuss word book too. I really, I did. I had to write, that's sort of my way of processing things sometimes. And I had a journal and I would write at night. And when I was really irritated, what I did was I would write a letter to God and I'd say, Dear God, please, please help me forgive these five people for pissing me off today. You know, please God, let me. be a little bit better about, yeah, I mean, because I just had to let it go. And that was my way of doing it. But I also then kept a journal of what was going on and I could put it all together. I'm doing great. I mean, this is what I retired in 2021 from working as a school psychologist and found this as a calling to be able to share with people because it helps me to... You know, I still bring my school psychology brain to it. I'm in California. I'm a licensed educational psychologist. And it's just my framework, right? I see how this impacts kids. And when kids are living in an environment that is chaotic or filled with grief, or if they have a parent that's filled with grief or anxiety that's not being treated, let me tell you, that shows up in school. Kids should. What happens at home shows up in school. And so I still feel like I'm on a mission to help kids. And that's just something I've always wanted to do. And so there's a piece of that. And I just think these are, I really do believe, like you said, community, and I really believe conversation is part of community. And when we have these conversations, we can be a little bit more conscious when we make actual decisions, right? If we don't have any information, how do we make a decision? And... But if we wait too long, we're making decisions under pressure, right? And that's why I think it's important to start talking, normalize talking about this, because that's how we can help families have, in the worst of times, the best of decision making. Does that make sense?

[Phines]: 38:31

Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, I mean, no, it makes so much sense because if you talk to your parents about what's gonna happen when your memory's gonna be lost, or just have that conversation period like how I'm gonna handle it as a person that has a, blah, I'll just talk to your parents, talk to people about all the different things. So then when I do lose my nuts and bolts or whatever, meet someone who knows what to do with them because they've talked about it with me. at some point and that's cool.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 39:03

Mm-hmm.[Phines]: Yeah. Right. And I don't remember all of the conversation you had with the death doula, but some of those conversations are also about what would be a quality end of life for you. So having that conversation with my parents was easy because they'd already thought about it. Like I said, they wrote some things down. They had this living will. They didn't want to be on life support for the rest of their lives. And it really spurred my husband and I to. put all of this down. So we formed our, you know, we have all that now for our kids. My kids actually say, mom, you've got to stop talking about death. Okay. We can talk about other things, but they're just funny that way. But they, they joke with us, but you know, we're, we're like, listen, this is, this is a real thing and we don't want to have half the gift my parents gave me as I didn't have to make a lot of decisions. I knew what they wanted. I knew what they didn't want. And my kids know what I, cause I could walk out the door today and something could happen. But they'll know, they'll know what to do. They'll know, hey, this is what mom wanted, you know, so.

[Phines]: 40:05

Get your coffin in the garage, just sit in there. I'm going, this is

[Brandon]: 40:09

you.[Phines]: M80. I love it. This is exactly what

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 40:15

That's right, that's right.

[Grandpa Bart]: 40:18

Sierra, any words of wisdom? Sierra?

[Sierra]: 40:26

I'm trying my best to keep my lungs together right now

[Grandpa Bart]: 40:37

I always enjoy listening to you, and you always have some very intelligent things to say.

[Sierra]: 40:39

Thank you.[Grandpa Bart]: OK.

[Phines]: 40:40

We gotta do the heavy lifting over

[Brandon]: 40:41

And[Phines]: here,

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 40:45

Well, can I ask you, Grandpa, have you had these conversations with your family, what you see, what you need at the end of your life to make it a quality end of life?

[Grandpa Bart]: 40:57

No, I haven't and I don't want to.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 41:00

Okay.

[Grandpa Bart]: 41:01

Yeah.

[Brandon]: 41:04

Why?

[Grandpa Bart]: 41:05

because I think that people to me are too concerned about[Brandon]: can't People seem to be too concerned about death rather than about life. And we don't, like you said, we don't know when what can happen

[Brandon]: 41:21

No.

[Grandpa Bart]: 41:21

any day. You could live to be, you can die tomorrow and you can die 10 or 20 or 30 years from now. So you don't know. So I think it's just a kind of a where you're brain’s at, you know, as far as how you feel about your own life and so forth. I don't– I don't care to dwell on death. I obviously understand that I'm gonna die like everybody else and every like you said every living thing dies lives and dies but I don't think that it's necessary, at least for me, it may be different for others, to dwell on that in life.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 42:05

Right.

[Grandpa Bart]: 42:06

I'd rather dwell on the good things in life and try and live life rather than dwell on when it's over.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 42:15

I so appreciate that point of view and I think I say talk about end of life but really for me those are conversations about life like how do I want to live my life? What do I need for my life to be really meaningful? So I think that it can be a little bit of both but I totally appreciate your point of view and that's not uncommon. It's not uncommon. So trust me I don't go around everywhere and bring the room down and just about death.

[Grandpa Bart]: 42:43

Well, it just seems to me that in today's era, and I don't know if it was always that way, everyone wants to measure everything about everything. Everything has[Christy Byrne Yates]: Yeah. to be measured and counted, and that to me is not what life is about.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 42:59

Got it.

[Brandon]: 43:01

But then how do we know what to do with you, Grandpa?

[Grandpa Bart]: 43:05

Well, you certainly don't have to worry about it.

[Brandon]: 43:19

guilt, Kristy. Did you have that experience?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 43:22

Oh, for sure. I mean, like I said, I look back and I think, ugh, I should have done this or I should have done that. But I don't spend a lot of time on that because I know I showed up the best way I could, right? And I, it's interesting, I think I probably have more guilt for parenting decisions. Sometimes I'll think, oh, my kids are having a hard time with this thing in life. I mean, they're in their twenties right now. And I'm like, oh, they're having a hard time with this right now because when they were 10 years old, I did such and such. I'm like a little bit neurotic. And they're like, mom, we're doing fine. We're happy.[Phines]: Thank you. because my children still. um, you know, text me two or three times a week, if not every day, sometimes. So, so we're in conversation. So I know that they, we have a great relationship and they like spending time with my husband and I. And, um, so, but yeah, there's always a little bit of regret, maybe, maybe not guilt, but regret. Like I wish I had maybe done some things a little differently. Um, but I also know that. I came, I was always coming from a place of love. It wasn't like, oh gosh, what a burden. It was, there were times when it was like a lot of work, but I mean, I don't feel like I had a, I always had a choice and my choice was always to show up for the people I cared about. And that is how I live my life, right? So.

[Grandpa Bart]: 45:04

I think it comes down to like your philosophy. My philosophy is that we're all basically puppets of the mind, that the creator is creating our entire awareness or consciousness and that you're doing exactly what is intended for you to do.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 45:26

I

[Brandon]: 45:27

Thank you.[Christy Byrne Yates]: can hear that. I think You said you wrote to God, Christy, that your spirituality helped you through this?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 45:39

Yeah, and my parents were very, I was raised in a Catholic household. My parents were very active in their church, so I made sure to give them the comforts of that they wanted, because that was what I knew was going to be helpful for them. For me, it wasn't, you know, I'm less like that. But yeah, I consider myself very spiritual, so that was just my way of saying, okay, higher power, God, creator, whatever, like take this from me because I am like miserable right now and I'm upset or I'm whatever and I just had to get it out of my head because I needed to sleep and that was a tough thing, you know? When you're anxious and all these racing thoughts are going on, it's hard to go to sleep, so. And I needed to wake up the next day and go to work. and make sure everything was cool. But yeah, it was, my spirituality was definitely something that helped me a lot, and I saw that the power of it for my parents too, it was very comforting for them to have a belief system. Now some people don't, and that's okay, or some people have different kinds of faith practices, and I think, you know, I've talked to people who maybe they have parents who have very different faith, they left a faith practice that they grew up in, and it's... They're very conflicted about it. You know, and my feeling is it's your parents' end of life, so if that's comforting for them. That might be a good thing for you you too. I mean, you always have to have boundaries. There's no one right way to do anything, really. There are multiple right answers to most questions, right? So you have to figure that out.

[Brandon]: 47:35

they were able to maintain their spirituality even with the dementia at that point.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 47:41

Oh, for sure. Yeah. You know, my dad had what's like I said, he had vascular dementia. That's very different than Alzheimer's. He didn't forget a lot of things. He just couldn't maybe participate in deep conversations the way he could.

[Brandon]: 47:56

Thank you.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 47:58

It was a little hard, you know, you had to be a little bit more concrete about what was going on. He kind of lost a little bit of his social graces too, so he was a crack up at times. My mom, and[Brandon]: it that she didn't forget any of us, but she forgot very recent things, right? So that's where she'd forget what she did five minutes ago. She'd ask the same question five times. That's a pretty classic Alzheimer's kind of[Grandpa Bart]: Yeah,

[Brandon]: 48:33

Yeah.[Christy Byrne Yates]: Yeah. But she died before

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 48:39

So for sure she was she was still active in her spirituality. I believe the night before she died we didn't know that she was that close, but we had a priest come and my brother and my oldest nephew had come My daughter was there, my son was away at college, and we had a priest come over and do last rites with her because we knew she was getting kind of close. And yeah, so she was, I don't know that she knew it was for her, but she was saying her prayers and did her thing, and it was very, it was actually a very beautiful time for us to be together. And yeah, it was lovely. So I think it was comforting for her.

[Grandpa Bart]: 49:32

the night before my mother died and i had no idea that she would be that she would die i was living out of town and i drove in uh... she got it on the edge of the bed and just squeezed my hand and she had never done that so[Christy Byrne Yates]: Yeah.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 49:50

For sure.

[Brandon]: 49:51

Thanks.[Grandpa Bart]: and i had no idea i went

[Grandpa Bart]: 49:57

that night then i had to come back the next morning because she had already passed away

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 50:01

Yeah,

[Brandon]: 50:02

Yeah.[Christy Byrne Yates]: yeah. But hearing you

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 50:06

gift she gave you, you know, because you remember that. And she gave you a gift of I know you, I'm here for you, I love you. Yeah, yeah. It's amazing what people do at the end of their lives. It's so true.

[Grandpa Bart]: 50:23

And I think the people that pass away, and I mean, it's just, this is again, a philosophical thing, are if there is a life after death, and there is a heaven or whatever, that they have some power over our lives. The ones who have[Christy Byrne Yates]: I

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 50:45

Yeah. Yes, people do impact us, don't they? And then we, you know, we carry that forward. And that's, again, that's why I wanted to start having these conversations so that people have, you know, I think it's possible to change the trajectory of our families, right? If we are, like I gave you the example of somebody who's maybe taking care of somebody that they didn't have a great. parenting from. But if they're raising children, how do you change that? How do you change that so that you have a, you're passing on a different story to your kids and you do that by, it doesn't mean you have to take care of this person who was harmful to you in any way. But You don't have to hurt them either. And so it's how you do that. You know, how do you show up? How do you, I keep saying show up, but like what are your limits? You might have limits. Like I can't have that person in my home, but I will visit them on a regular basis or what have you. And your children then see this act of compassion from you. And that's the legacy you're passing on to your kids then. Not this legacy of, you know, family sucks, you know? So that's important.

[Grandpa Bart]: 52:06

Yeah, it's good to bite your tongue when you're going to say something that's very negative.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 52:11

Exactly. It's very important.

[Brandon]: 52:19

I'm curious like in your book what the golden nuggets of wisdom that you sort of impart like you have, you know.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 52:32

Yeah, I think my biggest takeaway is that it's my belief that when we have these conversations, before we need to have, you know, making them, having them before we have to make critical decisions is really important. Because I believe it gives us a framework then and we're not...

[Brandon]: 53:01

Thank you.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 53:02

You know, I've talked to people who say, well, I don't really care what, you know, when I go, you do whatever you wanna do, do whatever you wanna do. And their belief is I'm giving you all the freedom, and it's just a gift. Then I'm just telling you, yeah, don't worry about me, do whatever. But the problem is, is when you're the person left behind, you do worry about what that person wanted. You do think about, well, what did they want? Did they want this? Did they want that? I don't know. And so you're sort of, you know, left with. a lot of questions and it's more, it can be more of a burden. It can be more of a burden. Not that it always is, but it could be more of a burden. Whereas if somebody just said, you know what, I absolutely don't want a funeral. You know, just have like a little, a tiny little, you can just do something in the park. That'd be enough for me. Or I absolutely don't want to be buried. I must be cremated. You know, if you have those questions answered, it takes a lot off that family. And then that family member or those family members can be there with you at the end without them agonizing over, what do I do? What do I do? And so those are the reasons why I think those questions are important. So yeah.

[Brandon]: 54:14

What grandpa?

[Grandpa Bart]: 54:17

You're very perceptive, Brandon. Very sensitive to what I'm thinking. But anyhow,

[Brandon]: 54:22

What? Ha ha.

[Grandpa Bart]: 54:24

I don't know. I think I look at death as something for the living to be aware of.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 54:31

Mm-hmm.

[Brandon]: 54:32

Thank you.

[Grandpa Bart]: 54:33

What's going on with the dead person, who knows?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 54:37

Right,[Grandpa Bart]: But

[Grandpa Bart]: 54:38

it's really about the living person and their feelings, basically.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 54:42

Right, right. So, and I agree with you, and so my choice is to tell my children what they might need to know so that they don't have to worry about that. That's all I'm just saying. That's, for me, that's what, that is me helping them live their life in the best way possible because they don't, I don't want, I want to take that, those questions off the table. But that's one of my biggest takeaways, Brandon. I think the other one is just, you know, really. looking at how are we, what are we teaching our kids as parents and how we take care of other people. And so being aware of that, that that's a real key issue. Like I said, what happens at home impacts us in so many ways, right? And I, again, because I'm a school person, I think, oh, this impacts learning. And it does, there are a lot of studies that would suggest that children of parents with untreated depression, untreated anxiety, those children can sometimes have a lot of difficulties. So I really believe in seeking help when you need it. And I think self-care is really important. So when you're the person in the middle, you have to take care of yourself. And that means sometimes you have to put yourself first. And that's a really difficult thing to do. for many people. Not everybody, some people are really good at it. But many people struggle with that a little bit. So really looking at self-care and mental health, we talk a lot about mental illness, but I think it's mental health. We all are somewhere on that continuum of mental health. Some days my mental health is really amazing, and there are other days when maybe my health is a little bit lower. So I'm not mentally ill, but I'm not really where I want to be, you know? So I gotta pay attention to that, and what do I do? Maybe that means I talk to somebody, I do what I need to do, get some exercise, get out in nature, whatever. But anyway, those are sort of the nuggets that I think are most important. Taking care of yourself and also looking at this as a continuum, what you're doing for your parents and what you're doing for your kids, it's all connected.

[Grandpa Bart]: 56:56

Leaving your children without or others without you know making it easiest for them is Not always easy to make the right decision That's it's that's one of those difficult decisions in life because sometimes there's you know opposing situations To

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 57:14

for sure.[Grandpa Bart]: you know and to make the

[Grandpa Bart]: 57:18

ones that are the easiest The decisions that you that you have to make

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 57:23

Yeah, yeah. And as Phines pointed out, sometimes what? Family, then after that person's gone, then the family falls apart and that's sad, you know? So what can we do to, are there things we could do ahead of time so that that's, again, I sort of lean into conversation and having discussions so that our needs met so that we don't all fall apart, you know? And that can happen easily, easily.

[Grandpa Bart]: 57:52

Yeah, you don't want to, you know, after you die, they go, whew, we don't have to deal with that anymore.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 57:57

Yeah, I never have to see you again. And that has happened, right? That's kind of a thing that happens. And then, I mean, this is a complicated issue. And there's money. Money is a thing that can drive people, a wedge through people. So we have to kind of look at all of those issues. So.

[Phines]: 58:17

complicated but still to be talked about. I mean, they don't need to be talked about. They don't need to be talked about. But it does make things a lot easier. What is my joke? My dad always says this thing of like, when I was being raised, he was like, I'm not always gonna be here, Phines. I'm not always gonna be here. You gotta do this, you gotta get your stuff together because I ain't always gonna be here. And I'm like, you ain't never here. No joke, but he's always there. But I'm just making a joke. But I think about that as like, I guess it was a soft way of saying, hey, Phines, I'm going to die. You better be ready. Get your dust in order. And I appreciate that. I'm going to tell him that, you know what? I'm like, I know, Dad, you're not going to be here. And I appreciate you telling me every five minutes.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 59:05

Yeah, that's great.

[Phines]: 59:09

But no, it is a good form of love. I read that book, that Bell Hooks book, all about love and they do talk about that. You know, it's a cool thing. But about, like, what your parents did is a form of love in a sense that they're preparing you for the ease of when they're gone. But I also learned something recently, too, though, kind of contrary to like, just because someone doesn't do that, which I'm sure you know, I'm just saying it because it made me feel better and I didn't realize[Christy Byrne Yates]: Mm-hmm. that people not doing that does not mean they don't love you either. You know, it is that

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 59:44

Exactly.

[Phines]: 59:45

I think I'm so used to reading that in books and stuff like going like people that really love you a plan to sit ahead and they think about your future and think about your college and stuff like that when there is more to it than just that. There is like, you know, if you even as a person think about the future as a thing, like to even to even you know, like it's not that you don't love your kids. You're just like, I'm a pretty in the present[Christy Byrne Yates]: Right. person. You know, this is just not,[Christy Byrne Yates]: Uh-huh. I'm not in that viewpoint. So that was something new I recently have been trying to like swallow myself. Cause I think I've been like, pushed down my throat of love is thinking about the future thinking about what I'm going to do when I'm not here. And it's fine to balance, you know? So, and I'm glad that you are saying that. I just wanted to.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:00:28

Yeah, well, absolutely right. And I will be clear, I don't think what I'm saying is everybody, I do not like to should on anybody. I don't like to be should on and I don't want to should on anybody, right? There's no should, like you should do it this way and if you don't do it this way, you don't love somebody. Like I said, there are multiple right answers to most situations, right? So you got to do what's right for you. It was easier for me to be present at those critical times when I didn't have to think about other things because I'd had an opportunity to talk about it. I don't think you gotta dwell on it because that's not fun, but every now and then you can have that conversation. And then you have other conversations and then you stay present and you have really good times. So[Phines]: Yes. I think you can have a nice balance. So talking about. these issues is not even 50% of your interaction with somebody. It's maybe 10%. But it's a quality 10%, is my opinion.

[Phines]: 1:01:36

I love talking about death. It's fun.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:01:39

Hahahaha[Phines]: I enjoy it. I enjoy it. I may make

[Phines]: 1:01:43

I'm so afraid of it, you know, also, but it is what it is. You know, listen, talk to me. My justification is at least I'm talking about it. You know, even if it's a joke or whatever it is. So I feel you because I'm sure I suppose for some people, the reason why I say I like hope like I say I'm going to be morbid because I've heard people say like, all[Christy Byrne Yates]: I'm fine,[Christy Byrne Yates]: to bed. things. out.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:02:07

Yeah, yeah, I get it. I getcha, yeah.

[Brandon]: 1:02:12

A lot of people my age or even sort of like a bit younger that I know recently, I've experienced a lot of like loss of loved ones and stuff. And It's interesting because I don't know the effects versus a person who's older on death versus someone that is maybe teens and twenties and stuff like that. But I don't know a good way to ask this question. But like, are your kids changed? Like, do they feel different now? You know what I mean? After that grief.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:02:50

Yeah,

[Brandon]: 1:02:51

Yes.[Christy Byrne Yates]: you know, I do think

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:02:55

they. feel it was hard for them because they loved my parents. But they, I think they feel stronger because of it. You know, they're a little bit more, they have a little bit more wisdom to take forward with them. And they're very open about, you know, how they try in different ways. There are two very different kinds of people, right? I have a son, I have a daughter. They're very different. But, they're really good at helping or being there with others when they're in grief, right? Like they kind of know how to do that. And I think that's a gift that they have taken away from that, you know? So if a friend of theirs loses a grandparent or a sibling or, you know, they've had, we all

[Brandon]: 1:03:55

kid.[Christy Byrne Yates]: our life. And I think

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:04:00

happens because they know how to be with someone who's grieving. And some people don't know how to do that because maybe they've been sheltered from it or it hasn't happened to them, you know? And so I think they do feel changed on some level. And I'm proud of them. I'm proud of them for who they are. And I think they're strong. and resilient, and we are resilient as humans. We have to be to survive, right? So, yeah.

[Brandon]: 1:04:32

Yeah, like when I talk to you, you know, I've talked to a couple different therapists over the years about like this topic of death and Every time they go back to like, oh, like a higher power kind of thing helps. I'm like, I don't believe in that. But I wish I did kind of thing, you know, But I'm curious like from the licensed clinical side, you know, what are the tips to get through that don't involve that?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:05:04

that don't involve spirituality. Well, I do. I, um. I don't know if I have any great tips Well, because I don't know that you can start at your age and say, I don't know, how old are you, Brandon?

[Brandon]: 1:05:22

I'm 28 in a month. So.[Christy Byrne Yates]: 28? Yeah, so, you know,

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:05:33

for life, you know? You've been through some things and I love it that you have a great relationship with your granddad and grandfather and you can do these things. So you've got that, those are those building blocks, right? So that's really what it is, you know, if you led a sheltered life where you never had good relationships with other people. It's harder to get through life. So I think having opportunities as you're growing up, it starts when you're little, having a relationship with a parent or one or more parent figures, really important. Having, even having a good relationship with an adult in a school system or however you were educated or other adult. So, and then having friends or things like that. Those, all those relationships are what And sometimes we have dysfunctional relationships. And then when we realize that and we get out of those, we get out of those when we also have trusted relationships. So those are the things that I think are most important. I would say to any parent is, you know, allow your children to have really good relationships with you, but with other people too. It's really important forming those relationships. That's what I think was the gift from my parents to my kids is they had. two other adults that they had loving, wonderful relationships with. And that was great. And they're really good. They know how to, they always knew how to talk to adults as kids. They had all, they all had kid friends, right? Kids their own age. But I don't know if you ever interact with kids who don't know how to talk to adults. It's kind of awkward, you know? So it's important[Brandon]: Thank learn how to have those relationships. So. You are a great example here doing a podcast with your granddad. That's awesome.

[Brandon]: 1:07:26

It's a weird thing when you think[Grandpa Bart]: Thank it. Yeah, but Yeah, that community I guess is

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:07:34

Well,[Brandon]: really

[Brandon]: 1:07:39

Yeah,[Christy Byrne Yates]: Clearly, it's so

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:07:40

fun.

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:07:43

And Phines and Sierra are great to have on the show. They always have something very smart to say. And I kinda miss not hearing from Sierra, but I understand there's a reason, so. You know.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:08:02

Yeah.[Brandon]: Grandpa

[Brandon]: 1:08:02

always[Phines]: okay. calls me, he's like, man, Phines and Sierra are the smartest people I've ever met. And, uh, oh yeah, you're there too, Brandon. It's very nice.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:08:12

So yeah, so this multi-generational thing, this is awesome. And that's a building block for getting through difficult times, right? When you know you have the ability to form healthy relationships,

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:08:26

Chrissy,[Christy Byrne Yates]: you you

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:08:27

yeah.

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:08:27

did mention that you were married during the time of the issues with your parents.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:08:34

Mm-hmm.

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:08:35

But what I want to ask you, do you have any close friends other than your children and your spouse?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:08:43

Oh yeah, no, I have a lot of close friends, yeah, and I had work friends. People were really supportive. And that's a great question because you know what? I didn't always ask for their help and that's a regret. I wished I had asked for more help because I wanted to do it all because I thought I was supposed to be the super mom and the super daughter. And you know what? No, you do not have to be super mom or super daughter. It's okay to ask for help. But yeah, I did have people that would help me if I asked, and I should have asked for more. I could have. There's no reason to shit on myself either, but that's something that we don't always do. That's a self-care thing, right? Learn how to build your team and ask for help. But I do, I do have other close friends. Thank goodness, that's kept me sane, and I have a good sense of humor, so we laugh about these things, you know?

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:09:35

Did you say that your son is still in college now?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:09:40

No, no, both my kids are graduated, so So my son lives in Ohio and he's an assistant director of admissions at a university there. And then my daughter, she graduated last year. She went to a school in LA and got a degree in screenwriting. But then she took a year to go study over in Ireland. So she's...

[Phines]: 1:10:11

Okay.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:10:12

She's still figuring herself out, but she is a writer and an artist and a creator, so she'll do something creative.

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:10:21

Nice.

[Phines]: 1:10:30

I just wrote a bad joke. Yeah, that's good. Good. The only reason why I say is, the only reason I'll just say is that, um, not the bad joke. The reason is because I'm trash. No, but, no, but I'll say that. I will say that you can tell. I agree that people that have gone through long. That you can, like, you know, tend to see it. Honestly, it's not because they're all sad and all gloomy and like, oh, it's usually because they have a lot of compassion and kindness because they know, they know, they have known that life is fragile. But because people were talking about strength, I just was like thinking about seeing kids and I'm like, oh yeah, you can tell that kid has lost because of lifting up all those bricks over there. But that was my bad joke.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:11:11

Yeah[Phines]: But yeah, no, I think

[Phines]: 1:11:17

and I think it's really cool to have Oh, also too, yes. Just, I'll just let you talk about, especially because of the three guys right here and right now, I think it is, at least as a guy speaking, that I think it is a very guilt and shame comes into, I wanna like not feel weak or not feel like, I don't know, like I can defeat death or death doesn't bother me or death isn't a thing. And I think it's cool that you said that and I just wanted to like highlight it that, You know, you're a guy listening, grandpa and Brandon and myself, just to like, you know, know that it's good to have like a circle of people, because I know we usually just are with our spouses and you know, the older we get, the less friends we have, but just know Brandon, I got you.[Christy Byrne Yates]: Yeah. And grandpa as well, if you ever need anything that please, you know, cry on my shoulder. Yeah.

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:12:12

Well, thank you. Thanks a lot. Yeah, I, when I met you in the theater, Phines, I felt a very warm feeling with you. You're a lovely guy. You really are.

[Phines]: 1:12:25

I appreciate it. It's all the bad jokes.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:12:28

No, that's great.

[Brandon]: 1:12:29

We're getting to the end of our 90 minutes. We always do last thoughts on the show. I'd love to go around. Kristy, you start. What are your last thoughts?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:12:43

I really appreciate this conversation and it's usually I'm preaching to the choir. I'm usually on a podcast where somebody's talking about caregiving or something. And even though I share my information, you know, we're on the same page, right? So I love this that talking about it and even having some difference of opinion about, you know, oh, no, maybe this or that. This is awesome. So I really appreciate that. And- And Phines, to your point, I am so glad to hear a young man say, you know, we need to be there for one another, because that really is a thing. And it's really, in these days, it's very important. So letting your friends know you care about them in any way you can is a really great thing. So good for you. Thanks.

[Brandon]: 1:13:34

Phines.[Phines]: Um, I'm looking for friends. No, I,

[Phines]: 1:13:41

uh, I, I appreciate you being on the show and always like, yeah, and that's why I love the show is that we get to talk about stuff that is not talked about. And we're, I'm just learning so much each episode about, first of all, it's just re invigorating how much community is a big deal and we need to talk to people, but also just like, I didn't know how generational differences were. I didn't know how deep the divide was between. me having a chance to talk to someone grandpa's age or someone's Christie's age, I want it really doesn't really happen where I get to have this conversation and starting to see that we're in different we're in. It's just as different as race for real, like, and social you for sharing.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:14:24

Sure.

[Brandon]: 1:14:26

Grandpa

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:14:27

Well, I think our conversation helps me to psychologically move into the right direction with regard to my feeling for other people being compassionate, you know, not being cold, and, you know, having more concern than just my immediate family. So in that sense, but today is a high day for me because it's the longest day of the year, but it's also kind of a little sad to me that the days are gonna start getting shorter now.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:15:08

Hmm.

[Brandon]: 1:15:10

It's[Christy Byrne Yates]: Interesting, yeah. so deep. Or not, I don't[Phines]: Thank I know that your lungs are not doing too well, so no worries either way. But yeah, to your point, Kristy, I think that's a, you articulated something really cool that maybe I've thought a bunch and haven't said before, is that, you know. I'm probably the only one in my friend group who's had a conversation like this, this week, this month, this year at all. Same for Phines and in this way, in this format, these conversations that we always have are really enlightening just because it's so, that's what's cool about this experience is like talking to a caretaker, those podcasts that you've been on, you know, We have such wildly different conversations week to week. And I really love this one. And I really appreciate your vulnerability and knowledge and advice and, you know, everything that you've been through. I'm sure it was such a crazy experience of being so handed. I really liked this episode.

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:16:25

And Chrissy, what is the name of your book?

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:16:29

Oh, the book is called Building a Legacy of Love, Thriving in the Sandwich Generation. You can get that on Amazon.

[Brandon]: 1:16:37

Yeah, tell everybody your links, your all that stuff.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:16:40

Yeah, so you can find me on any social as Christy B. As in boy, Christy B. Yates or Christy Byrne, B-Y-R-N-E Yates. I usually have my maiden name in the middle. But usually, like on Instagram, I'm Christy B. Yates. And same with LinkedIn. And then, like I said, my book is available on Amazon and other places. But yeah. there's also an audiobook because you know what caregivers don't have time to read books so I put it on audio so it's available as an audiobook too from audible

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:17:22

Well, you've got great audio, Chrissy.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:17:25

Oh, good.[Grandpa Bart]: Yeah, really, I'm[Grandpa Bart]: Chrissy,

[Grandpa Bart]: 1:17:27

yeah,[Christy Byrne Yates]: know that.

[Christy Byrne Yates]: 1:17:30

Thank[Brandon]: You

[Brandon]: 1:17:35

Thank[Christy Byrne Yates]: You betcha. That has been[Grandpa Bart]: I love