Dementia or Ageism (with Margo Arrowsmith)

Is it really dementia? Or something else? Do you ever feel dismissed, or ignored, because of your age?  This week we’re with therapist and author Margo Arrowsmith. We talk about politics, ageism, and our fear of dementia may lead us to rule out other more manageable health conditions.

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Transcript

0:42

Who's. Who's going to swear first? No, you're good. You're good. Oh. I thought. I thought you stopped using those words, Brandon. Or you taught them to make a fool. Hi, everybody. I'm Brandon Fox. You're here for another episode of Grandpa and Chill. I'm here with my amazing co-host. As always, Phines, amazing producer Sierra and my grandfather. Today we have a very special guest, Margo Arrowsmith. That's an amazing name. Isn't it? I love that one. Yeah. Would you mind telling the audience just a little bit about yourself? Well, I am. I've been working as a psychotherapist for 40 years, and at 75, I'm still working full time and intend to do so for a long time to come. I recently these days have been working with a lot of us older folks, and what's been exciting about it is, is that, you know, I'm getting people coming in who are in their seventies and eighties and saying, you know, I want to work on my stuff, you know, you know, the media or the, you know, the people who kind of want to pigeonhole old people say, oh, they're just all depressed or they're working on this, or they're getting ready to end their lives. And I'm finding it just not that way. You know, people are settling problems from early on in life and they're and they're wanting to know what they can do next. And it's very exciting. So I you know, I work with a lot of people who are kind of working on what we call anti ageism, which is basically prejudice against older people and younger people. So I was so excited when I found out that there's this podcast that that that that is intergenerational and working together. So I'm really anxious to hear what you guys do. Yeah, I mean, yeah. No, go, Grampa. Go ahead. Oh, no. I'll just say happy that you're on now. Who are you going to take? What do you think of the controversy about Biden? I think that it's I think it's a political ploy, frankly. You know, he's done a great job. He certainly did a much better job than the guy before him. He speaks better than the guy before him. And and he's not that much older. So I think it's I think it's something because they can't actually attack him on what he's done. So they they keep calling him senile or all these crazy things which we all know he's not, you know, if somebody can because what he has to do with his stutter, what he has to do is think like two sentences ahead so that if he so if he sees himself starting to say a word, he has a hard, hard time talking. He has to change it. I mean, you know, you can't have dementia symptoms and be able to do that. So I also, by the way, you know, speaking of this controversy, I mean, my controversial stance is, is that probably the most overdiagnosed thing in the country is dementia. I mean, anybody anybody who has gray hair or, you know, was born a certain year, things that they've been doing their whole life. I had a woman come into my office a little while ago. She's eight in her eighties, and she sat down and very, you know, announced to me as if, you know, some pronouncement. She says, well, I have dementia and that's what we have to work on. So I said, Oh, you have dementia, prove it to me. Which of course, nobody else says, they're not going to say that. So. So she's the example. She gave what she was, she was trying to cook and she was couldn't find the marinating pan. And that, you know, since she couldn't find it, she couldn't remember was that meant she had dementia. So in talking with her, I find out what you know, what it turns out that her entire life she had this habit of not putting things back where they belong. So her entire life, she couldn't find things. But now that she's in her eighties, it must be dementia. And that's so much what happened. So, matter of fact, I have a channel on YouTube out loud. It's called. And one of the playlists is Just because you're old doesn't mean it's dementia. And one of the and I have 12 videos where I talk about other things that dementia could be. And so I say to people, if your doctor says this to you, you say to your doctor, If I were 45, what else would you be looking for? So and look for that in me. So I'm I'm I'm it was a good question to ask me Brant Barton because I'm pretty hot on the subject. So there you go. Huh? I like that. You have a good judgment. Just kidding. I knew you were. I knew you were. So how did you guys get this together, this intergenerational thing? Well, from from my point of view, Brandon did the whole. No, Grandpa started it, actually. So the crazy thing is, years in 2020, I feel like he called me. I was driving my car and he's like, I just heard this great new thing called the podcast. I kind of want to do one I love. It may have been out front. I do. Have dementia because I don't remember that conversation. On. Instagram. But yeah, and then it just sort of naturally progressed from there. I feel like we're still, you know, just finding our flow and the shows evolves and keeps evolving a lot. So yeah, but it's really cool. It's been like two years or more now. I did have a thing the other night which I, yeah, I've never had this happen, but I literally for a moment forgot my wife's name sort started saying and it like it just slipped and I couldn't remember and then it came back but I had some sort of a brain stop. Stopped working for a second. Yeah, I mean, it happens. You know, one of the problems is that when that happens to us and it happens to people their whole lives, and it may happen when we're older. I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't, but what the problem is, is when it happens, when you're older, it's like, oh, my God. And then you and then you it gets scary and you think, Oh my God, that must be dementia. Then you get anxious and that anxiety increases the amount of times that it happens. But you don't take it back about, you know, your show. What? When I was six months old, my parents bought a their first of three small town newspapers in Iowa. And when dad was 91, I sat him down. This was with you know, I don't know if you guys remember that little flip camera. You guys might be too young for that. But and it was back in the days when YouTube would only accept videos for minutes and under. So anyway, I decided I do remember that. I decided, yes. I used to I used to want to flip cameras so bad when I was in school. Oh, they were. I know exactly what you're talking about. They were so cu. In perfect size. And the great sound. But anyway, so anyway, so I said, well I'm going to make these videos and you're going to talk about it. And he's like, Oh God, I have nothing to say. And, and so at first he was great from the first video on. But I got to the point where, you know, because it could only be 4 minutes, I have to say, Dad, you stop. We can make another one because because once he started talking, so I got this crazy idea and I can game by to go along with it that, you know, people talk about, well, we can't get our grandchildren and our and our parents together. I said, Well, you know what? Your grandkids love technology. Your parents have a lot of stories to tell. How about you get the grandkids to record the grandparents and that'll bring them together. And people looked at me like I was crazy. But I mean, clearly you're showing that it's a great idea. So thank you. Thank you. It's nice. Huh? I said thank you. That's that's nice to know. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, we're working together. Yeah, I'm thrilled. Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool. I just to a previous point that you had made, Margo, I'm talking about older people and therapy. I feel like my, you know, our generation is much more aware of it than maybe 60 years ago. Is that true? Well, I it's hard to say, because I matter of fact, I actually. You're in Toms River. I lived in Montclair for a long for like 25 years. I lived in northern Jersey. And so we went into the city a lot. And it was a little more almost like expected. And I was going to say accepted, but it's actually expected that people were more aware of it, certainly in New York and probably in North Jersey. So, yeah, I think it depends on what part of the country you're in, how aware people are. But, you know, New York City was the hotspot for and still probably is for therapy and training. It was a really easy place to get post-graduate training. So, I mean, I was grateful to be there for that. Yeah. What were you saying about Toms River? Well, I saw your phone and when I called, I called Brandon earlier and it came up on my recent calls as Toms River. You're not in Toms River. I no longer, but I grew up in Toms River. Yeah. Oh, that's okay. So that's why. We went to area code. Yeah. And I used to live down the street from finance finances in Queens. And are you. Oh, so you were. You were in the city, huh? Mm. Did you grow up in the city and you said. Yeah, no, I grew up in Jersey, but I lived in Queens. Okay. Phines, is your video back? I know that they kept kicking me out of the room or whatever, but. Yeah, How do I sound? Audio, though? Excellent. Excellent. Really? Yeah. Honestly? Yeah, honestly. Could see for you were too loud and more muffled. Now it's clean, crisp and clear. Yeah, it's much better. You hear us? Okay. You guys are lying to me. It just the United State, and it's not blowing smoke up. I think you sound like shit, but. Like you lie. But not all right. Yeah, I just. I just. I haven't heard you say anything, so I'd like to hear about you. I was so self-conscious. I was like, Oh, no, I'm going to sound like an ass. That was just like, I don't want to. I don't want to. Um, it's tough for me. Not really to about Mike. Um, no, I have been taking notes about you. I, I, I think that you have some. I guess I should talk about myself. My name is Vitus. I live in Astoria right now. I'm from Indianapolis, Indiana. In the Midwest. Uh huh. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's a little bit about me, I guess. Um, but I, there's some stuff that you said that really I liked a lot, which is like a couple of, like the acts of kindness, I think, like when, uh, you let your, like, grandkids record your, your grandparents. I think that is not only, like, just a good idea, but it's just like, um, it just seems like it would make everyone is good. Good, good. Five The little kids would feel very, like, cool and innovative and, you know, and important. And, and I think that like you were saying about your, your father after a while they're like, oh, I keep talking for them. So thanks for having the camera on me. I've been trying to talk. Um, I think that's awesome to get people to do that. And really the whole focus on age and asking questions about like it kind of it's kind of mind blowing in the sense of like, you're right, once you're this certain age, it's like the stereotype of, Oh, I must be, I must be a knee replacement. And that it couldn't just be like, maybe I need to stretch today, which I would have thought about that, you know, 30 years ago. But now you have like you can't stretch anymore. Um, well, exactly. And I'm glad you brought that up because somebody was telling me yesterday it's like, you know, if you need a knee replaced or your knee hurts, they're like, Oh, it's because I'm old. Well, then why don't you then how come if it's just because you're old, why doesn't your other knee hurt? They're both the same age, you know. But. But we just, you know, make these assumptions and, you know, and there's I think senior housing and the senior industry is there is a is a big industry. There's a lot of money at stake. And and what they need to do in order to make all that money is to get old people to do what they want them to do. For instance, you know, go into an assisted living, don't stay home, do this, do that. And when they can't convince the older people to do it, what they do is they start marketing to the to their children who are adult, terrifying them, saying, oh, if you don't make your parents go this place, if you don't have the talk with them, and then they teach you how to manipulate your parents into having this talk by being very well manipulative and dishonest with them. And and it's causing so much of a rift between the generation and and we need we need to get back together with each other and and and not get pushed around by marketers so much. That I really feel that because I think I've been listening to like just conversations in general with people my age and um, the I point of saying ageism, like, you know, I see racism because I'm black or whatever, and I see gender because, you know, I'm a male or whatever, and I see gender, but I don't notice how much I pay age, just stuff just about little kids are people that older than me. And it does seem like almost like their own different group of people when we're really just all the same. Um, this is also why I'm like, I'm a little scared of like the I'm against capitalism, but this is as well, I guess capitalism were manipulated now capitalist to have me like my grandma telling to go into the home. And said, I'm want to kill you. You know, when in 1965, my mom had her parents in a small apartment because Grandpa took care of grandma and then he got too sick to do it. And she she was working. So she kept trying to do it and she couldn't do it anymore. So she had to put them in a place in this small town in Iowa where I grew up. The only place she could find was this horrible, horrible, horrible place. Okay. And that's about all there was anywhere. And there was no home health aides. So she couldn't get anybody to come in and help. Okay, fine. So capital, when capitalism is working, it solves problems for people. Great, wonderful, hooray. But here's what happens. They see, oh, we can solve this problem for people. Oh, and it's very profitable. Let's make some more. Okay. I was okay at first, but what? Continue to happen was they started building more and more. So then what they had to start doing was to put up propaganda to fill those places so that they could make all this money. And so now, just like you pointed out, that I'm so happy that you did, is that it's reversed. It used to be a benefit and it used to be a nice thing that capitalism was doing, but then it got greedy, wanted to keep making more and more money. So now they're building too many of them. And now they've got to convince everybody to go live there. And so now it's it's, it's, it's what tends to be the cycle. You know, it starts to help at first and then it stops helping. So, yeah, you know, I'm not totally against capitalism, but. Huh. No, no, go ahead, please. I'm sorry. I'm not totally against capitalism, but I think it needs to be it needs to be controlled, let's put it that way. Unfettered capitalism has made a lot of problems for us all. Margo, I have a question. Go ahead. Go ahead. Question for you as a psychoanalyst. Yeah. Is is is there a difference if you're treating a person as far as them having a different race, a different ethnicity, a different age, whatever, does that affect the value that you can give to the patient due to the fact that their culture there's cultural differences. That is a wonderful question. And it's I mean, you know, I could take a week to answer it because, again, you know, in 40 years, I've I've seen a lot and I've done a lot. Right. One of the problems has always been in let's just take black and white. But it also is true with Hispanics, but most therapies tend to be white. And, you know, I don't know, when I was in graduate school, we had like one black guy in my class, you know, So so it it ends up being that it's often, you know, when people of color go into therapy, they often end up being seen by a white person and you know, some. And yes, you do need to have some training, but of course, we can never know it totally. One of the saving grace is I once, when I was first working as a therapist, I got a job with this guy. He and his friend is woman friend had started this was in the issues in the early eighties had started a therapy practice for gay people which and back then, you know, most therapists thought being gay was a you know, it was a disease. So so anyway, so I'm interviewing his his partner left, so he needed a woman. So I'm interviewing and I and I said to him, I said, well, do you do you know, do you think it's going to be a problem that I'm straight? And he's like, you don't know. I think it's actually going to be better because you're not going to assume that you've know everything about this person and that. And also in the eighties, I don't think it's as true today. But in the eighties, you know, when coming out was still a very big deal. A lot of gay people would be threatened by somebody who was afraid to come out or whatever. And he says, and you're not going to be bothered by that. So here's how I kind of apply that with with people of color when I see them. And right now I have two or three cases like that. But number one, I know that I I'm not assuming that I know what their story is because I really need to listen to them tell me their experience. And I think that can be a benefit. Now, what can be a problem is sometimes, you know, I get a little like many years ago, I was working with adolescents and I was working with one African-American girl and ah, and she had a lot of problems. And and so a lot of what was going on between us wasn't necessarily racial, but certainly was some of it anyway, I took her to a flea market and we're, you know, looking and stuff. And I've come upon this table where they're selling this old memorabilia and it has all this Aunt Jemima stuff. Now, you know, my my quandary at that time was, if I don't say anything at all, will she think I think that this is great stuff If I do say something and given where she came from, she might not even have known the history that I didn't know that because we'd never talked about it. But if I don't say something, will she think I'm a I'm, I you know, I'm on board with it. If I do say something and it doesn't interest her, am I pushing myself onto her and you know, that's one example, but that's something I always have to be careful of. On the one hand, I want to learn as much about their the individual's experience as possible, which is always true in therapy anyway. But I also want to let them know, like for instance, with some of the people I have now, you know, everyone to I'll say something like this one woman, she and her husband started a church and he's a minister. And and they were having various troubles. And every once in a while I might pop in. I'd say, well, you know, that also, you know, that experience you just had, you know, how did you know? Was that also racist? I let her I say it so that she's aware that I that I'm aware that it exists. I'm certainly not one of those people that says I'm color blind because we all know that's stupid. But I also don't force it on her to say, Oh, let's talk about the racial thing. I had a I had a black therapist, actually when I was when I was younger, when I was in graduate school. And at one point she brought up she was and she was a good therapist. We did well, but she brought up something about it. It was something racial and she was right to bring it up. But I'm like, Well, you know, that doesn't bother me. And and at the time, the term white privilege was not being used because, I mean, as it is today. But basically, you know, but I she's like, are you sure? And I'm like, you know, I'm white. I don't have to think about this on a daily basis. I appreciate that you do. But it's those kinds of things that, again, you say something so that so that it's out there. But when I'm working with a person of color and it's usually an African-American person as opposed to Hispanic, but I put it out there when I think it's appropriate, but I don't push it because then it's their right to decide if they want me to work with them on it. Does that make sense? Mm hmm. Definitely. Okay. Thank you. I talk a lot, so sometimes I think I'm just going down a rabbit hole, so I always have to check it. I thought psychoanalysts just listen. They don't really. Well, I. I do psychoanalytic therapy, but I'm not a psychoanalyst. I you know, in 40 years, I've done a lot of different things. I have psychoanalytic training and mostly not Freudian, but mostly, you know, there's many other kinds, including young And I sometimes I just sit and listen, and sometimes that people just need to talk. But sometimes I'm interactive. I really, you know, I have a lot of different tools. And, you know, there's an expression if everything you if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. So I, I have a lot of different tools. So I really want to get to know the person and and use the tools that are correct for them and tools that are correct for them. One day might not be the best tools for them. Another day. So, you know, I like to I like to move around. So sometimes I'm quiet and sometimes I'm not. I'm still here for it. I love it. And, uh, having a good one, I've got a nice couple of flicks because it's great, cause it's so nice to have a bunch to know when to talk and when to listen and, you know, and also, basically that's the same thing with this whole, like, um, I guess the know I could talk about is, is like white guilt is real, but so is every other guilt, you know? So it's like, again, the stuff you were saying kind of reminded me of like, uh, again, I'm, I'm being more awoken of like being of my, my privilege as a man and stuff that I have. And a lot of my masculinity issues are just things that are going or, you know, just stuff like that and just trying to tiptoe and conversation going, do I, do I say it out loud or do I not say it? And I'm like, it sounded that like what you were saying with, uh, how you would go about, um. Well, it, it's listening to and I think that's what you're saying that you do is, is you don't just assume you know what to do. You listen to the person you're talking to. Oh, not that I. Actually have to. No, I'm sorry. I did not put my foot in my mouth all the time. Well, I. Okay, well, you know what? If if you're calling it that, you know, you're working, you're working. And that's what I try and do, too. Well, I have two scripts that I have in my head, and I have to write them down a videos that I want to do about explaining to white people what white privilege is. And I worry a little bit about talking about guilt because, I mean, I know I have white privilege. I don't feel guilty about it because there's nothing I can do about it except to know that I have it and to and to. Therefore, you know, I was telling someone, you know, my daughter and my grandchildren still live up in New Jersey. So I was driving up there one Thanksgiving and just before I left, I couldn't find my cell phone. Turned out it was under the seat of my car. But anyway, so I'm going up to New Jersey without a phone. So I did not have a GPS. Okay. And oh, wow. Is weird because, you know, this was a time in life where almost like, you know, is it even legal to travel on I-95 without a cell phone? I that was really that thought was going through my head. But what I did, because I certainly didn't want to get lost. So every once in a while I would stop and I would ask somebody because I wanted to make sure it was going the right direction. And I remember this one woman at a gas station just a little bit outside of Washington, and she said, Well, follow me, you know, and without a phone, I don't you you young kids probably don't remember this, but grandpa does. You know, when somebody would have to follow you and how hard that was because you'd have to keep an eye on each other. It was horrible. But she volunteered to do that for me. And and then she's pulling off into Washington and she's telling me to go the other direction. But every time I stopped, the only people there for me to talk to, to ask the question were African-American people. Sometimes it'd be a group. Sometimes like that woman was African-American. She had her grandmother with her. When I was in New Jersey, just before I was at my daughter's house, I stopped and asked this man. He actually drove me to my daughter's house. They were all so nice. And and I am I and I started thinking. I said, you know what? If if I were an African-American person in the same position and everybody I had to stop and ask, were white, would I have felt as comfortable as I felt doing it? Okay. So I'm telling this woman who does my hair and she she was a strong woman. She she carry Kerry north Carolina is is well, let me put it to you this way. It's a it's a it's a city with a stick up. It's an oak. I mean, very, very white, very, you know, with a stick up its ass, I'm just telling you. Anyway, so she had a business. She an African-American woman who had a business in Cary, North Carolina. And she would go to like local business people's meetings and she'd be the only black person there. And she would tell me stories about how she stood up to them all. So I'm telling her this story about the trip up to New Jersey, and I'm starting to say to her, just like I said to you, I was wondering if I were black and everybody was white. What I and I started to say, well, I feel as comfortable. And she said before I could say she said scared. And I'm like, whoa, if she would be scared. And to me, I mean, that's what white privilege is. I mean, I don't have to feel guilty about it, but I sure as heck need to recognize it and not pretend like it doesn't. And yeah, no, no, you're right. And let me try to take a little bit of the guilt. I guess what I go from guilt because I also been thinking a lot about shame and the difference between the two. And I think that guilt is something that or at least what I've been learning is guilt is something that that is something that you you want to work at and you want to address that shame, something you hide and you keep away from yourself or you protect with defensiveness or whatever, whatever these different things. And you you are exactly correct on that. Another way, another way, though, to say it, and you are correct, I mean, you could say that and always be correct. Another way to say it is, is that guilt is about something you've done. Shame is about something you are. Oh, so if you've just feel you can correct it and that's what you're talking about, right? You're talking about it that if I said the wrong thing or if I was insensitive, I should correct that shame is about something that you are. You're usually wrong about it, by the way, because it's something that you've internalized right. And so therefore. But anyway, but you are your definitions the way you used it were also very correct. Oh, thank. No, that's good. I like it. So I guess we could market a t shirt that says I'm guilty. Well, we could. We could. I don't think I'd wear it. I would rather say I'm woke. And again, you know, to get back to what you were talking about earlier, about Biden and I and I had said I think it's just a political ploy. So is woke. It's like, you know, woke means that you're you're you're not asleep, that you're noticing things around you. But they turn that into something that should be shameful. And I'm not going to be ashamed of it. So, yeah. So there. Margo, have you ever worked with anyone who's what is known as an empath and empath? Hmm. Not a lot. I've worked with a couple of people who called themselves that, and I didn't really correct it. And basically, I'm not sure what they meant by it. I think this one man that I was working with and he he was in his seventies and he has problems as he kept it. Certainly when I was working with him, he was with a woman who he shouldn't have been with and he was trying to get away from her. And he called himself an empath. He used that term, I don't use the term, but he really meant that, you know, he feels for people, which is fine. I think. I think a lot of times when people hear empath, it's sort of like something on Star Trek where it's like, you know, you can remind me things. You mean he has empathy with people? Exactly. And most people do. Know that's I mean. That's yeah, yeah. So no, but yeah, so people tend to use it for that. And you know, I don't argue with them because that's not what I'm there for. But, but no, not that kind of, that, no, that kind of thing. Have you, by the way, Barton. Well I am. And them. Oh, well, tell us about it. Yeah, tell us about it. Basically. Grampa Bart, can you turn. Up your gain a little bit? I wish you would. Thank you. It's. It's a sensitivity. Your grandfather. Sir. Can can you empathize with our inability to hear you right now. As you begin. With somebody? It just means that you. We can't hear you, Grandpa. You got to turn up your game. Other emotion. Well, you need that microphone right next in your mouth. It's good. There you go. Hutch. Okay. Yes. It's I think it's just as strong a sense. It's touch apparently never filters. People have that we give off brainwaves and you probably have filters. So you don't generally you're not generally aware of other people's brainwaves. Apparently, I've lost those filters, so I can feel even from an animal, a bug. I can feel their brainwaves. Well, I have friends who do that. I have friends who, you know, they sense auras and things like that. I mean, I do have friends like that, so I know it exists. I just you know, people don't come to me to work on it because in general, it's not a problem. You know, It reminds me of a story, though. This guy that I had, his daughter wanted him to come to therapy because she thought he was too emotional. He was in his eighties. Now, here's the story. This guy was a young boy in the forties when in Denmark, when the Nazis came in with their tanks and took everybody's food and everything away. And and he would tell me the story about what it was like as a little boy, not having enough to eat and sometimes somebody would go out on a bicycle because they because they heard there was food somewhere. But you had to be careful because of the Nazis caught you. They take your food and your bicycle. And but he was talking about it kind of like I'm talking now and like you're talking now. Then he got all choked up. He got very choked up and he said, Tell me. And he says, And then we started to see, you know, the cattle cars would go on the railroad and we could look and we could see through the slats on the cattle cars. They would see people's fingers and they would hear people's voices from inside the cattle. And when he was saying that, he was all choked up and then he got better again, and then he started talking about something he'd heard on the news. It was one of those sweet stories about some nice thing that somebody had done, and he got choked up again. But his daughter, instead of just seeing how empathic he was still being, I mean, even 80 years later, somebody who remembers that that doesn't get choked up to me is is there's a problem there. But too, his daughter just was upset because he was getting emotional about it. And I think people like yourself. BARTON sometimes people hide that because other people think they're weird, or if they get choked up about something, people think they're weird. And and that increases as you get older because I'm guessing this this young this woman, his daughter heard these stories her whole life. But now that dad was 80, he shouldn't be choking up anymore about these cattle cars with people inside. And, you know, my thought was that's a very healthy thing to do. And and it's not the same as being an empath, but he was certainly still being empathic. But even as a little boy, maybe he was an empath because he knew what was because little boys don't necessarily know what's going on, but he knew what was going on inside those railroad cars. Well, I get choked up when I see a tractor trailer carrying cattle that I never go, Oh, slaughterhouse. Yeah. Yeah. That's sensitivity. That's something different. But. Well, yeah, but, well, it's, it's, it's on a different spectrum but are feeling for other beings. Other living beings. Are you a vegetarian? No, I'm not. And I'm always, I always feel guilty about that. Okay. I'm kind of a hypocrite. Well, you know, around here we have a lot of farms. I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina. We have a lot of farms where cows run free for two years and then they take them and slaughter them. And my feeling about that is, I mean, I eat meat, but I'm not like, I will never eat veal because I see no need to torture an animal for us to eat it. There's enough else we can eat. But these animals that are raised on these farms, if it weren't for us eating them, they wouldn't have had those two years to run around in the pastures. So I mean, and I might be rationalizing that, but I think that makes sense. You can absolve yourself of guilt. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. It does. Grandpa, tell her about the the sort of negative effects of your ability to feel vibes and stuff? Yeah. Mostly most of the what I pick up is not necessarily what someone's thinking, but it's more about what they're feeling. And the most of the time the emotion that I get because this is what society is, it's stress. So it's and I feel that stress. It's very, very powerful. Um, it, it causes issues with, with sleeping and it causes issues while you're awake. It's basically very stressful vibes that I pick up from, from society. Well, and then that makes the stress vibes. Pardon. Yeah. I was sad. And then that makes you stressed. A friend of mine years ago was talking about she had a daughter who was very much like, You are, and the daughter was like 16 or 17, but they were in a clothing store and this man walked in and my friend could kind of sense there was something weird about him. But her daughter suddenly got very sick because this guy's or this guy was so he had so much negativity that he just kind of almost sucked the life out of her daughter, who was in fact very empathic. So, yeah, and it can happen. It's just as strong a sense as all my other five senses. Yes. Yes, yes. Just a strong. Yeah. And I've been in situations where I don't want to get the reason for it, but, but the other individual that I was working with was so fearful that it almost, you know, it almost knocked me down on the floor that because I could feel that. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And you know it. And that must be and that's awful. I'm hoping in your life, though, that it has kept you from becoming involved with people that you shouldn't be involved with. Well. You don't always have a choice. Or if you do, maybe you don't want to make those compromises in life, as I'm sure you understand. Well, yes, Yes. But at least you have a sense about people. At least you're not. As Are you talking about someone I know, Grandpa. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, Mark, I wanted to ask you this sort of a question for grandpa versus Sierra and Phines, but, um, sort of like therapy for people in our generation versus therapy for older people. I've never met a therapist who specializes in, like, people in their seventies and eighties and stuff like that and how that came about. And also, yeah, just that experience. The difference. Well, I will tell you and people, people assume that it's different. I work on the same things with older people that I work on with younger people. The difference is, is that I do have I do have to people who come in who have spouses who have Alzheimer's, and that does not happen with younger people. But I have a woman who's 84 years old and she is working on she had a great life, by the way. She she you know, she traveled the country in dancing contests. And she she she she just was very active person. She's been sober in AA for 35 years. Good life. However, you know, two years ago, she realized that, you know, when she was a kid, her her father used to every Saturday morning, her father used to sexually molest her. And and that before she died, she wanted to resolve that. And that's the kind of thing that people your age come in for. Also a lot. I mean, people think that it's going to be different, but it's not. I mean, it can be, obviously. But there's there's a there's a lot of there's more similarity than there is not. I mean, people do people that come in older like the other lady I told you about. Do worry about every time they forget something, they think they're getting senile when they're not. But and they're dealing with ageism. They're they're dealing with their own ageism. They're with their own thoughts of how being old means that they're worthless anymore. I do find that people who live out in the community are more likely to be open than people who live in these huge places with, you know, 500 other old people. You know, there's something about those senior communities as they're called, where there's just this assumption that if everybody's in their seventies, they must all like each other and be friends. And and that's no more true in the seventies than it was when we were in our thirties and twenties, because people are all different. So Phines— Phines worked in the medical field and we had someone on. We had a really crazy discussion about those living facilities, like this person who had like worked in them and wrote stuff about like sort of the the horrors and the under like it's a it's a rough business. It's a crazy business. It's a rough business. I've had people. Moderate. Me. I've had people in my office who've gone into I had one man go into a CCRC is Continuing Care Residential community center, and you have to give them like anywhere from 3 to $900000 just to get in the door. And that's their money. But they promise you that they'll put you, you know, you start when you're perfectly healthy and they'll take care of you. No matter what happens, they'll move you up the road and and but they make a lot of promises that they don't keep. For instance, this one guy, he moved in because his wife was ill and he wanted her to have good care and he was so and she died. But he and she didn't die because of bad care. But he was so upset by the care she got. He walked away from $500,000. He just left it there. He's I that's yeah, I actually I'm glad to bring it up. By the way, I have a course that, you know, I teach people, number one, how to decide they want what's best for them. But if they do want to go into like a CCRC or a senior housing, how to decide what's the best one, but also how to how to talk to salespeople, what questions to ask, get everything in writing. Because if this guy had gotten it in writing, he might have been able to take some of his money away. Would you? Would you want to go to one grampa? Oh. Good. I'm so glad to hear that. I think when you get my age, at least for me, I think about death because I have close friends of mine died 17 years ago. And all you ever hear about people dying, you know. Yeah. My age. Yeah, well, it's that. And it's just sort of like you're just. You're just isolated from the world. One of the things I don't like them is, is that sometimes people come in to entertain and even, like, they'll have, like, high school kids, a choir come in and sing, but they don't have them doing anything for anybody. It's Suddenly, like, you're just there. You're just there passively. And, you know, you know, you have no real use or function in life anymore. And that's not good for anybody. But one of the things I heard the other day, I was on LinkedIn and, you know, sometimes one of these live things will pop up. And it was these two very charming young women. One was selling a marketing program, teaching people how to use email for marketing, and the other one was someone who was a marketer for one of these communities. Right? And the woman is teacher says, you know, you want to make sure that when they come for the tour that they don't bring anybody because like, what if they bring their sister and their sister ask questions like, yeah, good. Ask questions, ask more questions. But but they were really teaching them to be be careful of not letting them ask questions. Like a used car. So they're basically are use thank you. They basically are used car salesmen only at least a used car salesman is giving you a car which like there's a lot of underhanded marketing that they don't even think because one of the reasons they were doing that openly on LinkedIn is because they don't see it as underhanded marketing. It's just smart marketing. And one of the things I do in my course, which yes, I'm selling, so I'm putting in a little plug for myself here, but is to teach people, you know, know yourself well enough to know where you want to go and don't let anybody fool you and make sure you get everything in writing. But but the marketers don't want you to do any. They don't want you to ask questions at all. So can you can you bullet point your sort of like the the projects or the names of all of the sort of different stuff that you do? Oh, okay. Well, I have I have my YouTube channel, which is age out loud. I haven't I need to work some more on that. But the thing I'm proudest of there is that is the the playlist that has the 12 videos that say, you know, if you have dementia symptoms, this is what else it could be. For example, you know, UTIs, my babies get UTIs people, some people get them their whole lives, some people never do. But it's something that people can have at any stage of like when you get to be our age. Barton In my age, a UTI, I can have symptoms that make you make it look like dementia. So if you go to the doctor and you're 45, you have these symptoms. The doctor says, Oh well, you have a UTI, we better we better fix that before it gets worse. If you're Barton's age or my age and we have those symptoms, oh, you have dementia. And number one, your treated for something you don't have. And the UTI that you do have doesn't get treated because they think it's dementia. But anyway, so there's a what. Is UTI, what is. Your urinary tract infection. Thank you for asking. Anyway, so I have my YouTube channel which is age out loud. I have of my therapy practice. I have a consulting practice, which I do, you know, for people all over the country. And I and that is a lot about having generations work together. And it's mainly with older people and their immediate children, you know, when they're having troubles because they young, the children begin to think and often because people tell them that they should start to control their parents lives. So I do a consulting practice about that. Oh, I have my course, which is what. Do you think about that one, Grandpa? Well, I know in my situation my mother did have dementia, very obvious. And I tried to put her into a a care facility. Very nice one, beautiful restaurant and everything. And after dinner, she was fine. We have dinner with some of the personnel. We took her up to her room and she complained to the point where they said, You better take her home or she's going to end up in the E.R. She wanted to stay in her home. And I you know, I accepted that. And she did live out her life in her home. So I guess when you ask me what I think about it, that's what I think about it, that that's the way I behave. There is there is a lovely man that I know, Dr. Dylan Canterbury, and he has a PhD in pharmacy, as a matter of fact, and he runs a program called Deprescribing. He started doing this because his grandmother, they kept her at home and she had dementia symptoms and everybody said she had dementia and then she got to be they couldn't control her because she got too hard to handle. So they put her in a nursing home and soon the nursing home called up and said, Come and get her. We can't handle her either. Kind of like what happened with you. Anyway, he looked at all her medications and he got her off her medications. And I mean, she's not that he took her off all of them, but, you know, they were interacting with each other. And he got her on most of her medications. And the next thing you know, she didn't have dementia symptoms at all. And my story is my mother had dementia symptoms. I mean, she was pretty bad and my dad was taking care of her. She was also had a lot of internal bleeding and they gave her surgery because she had two of her organs were bleeding that they could fix. But she had a lot of little bleeding from all over the place. They couldn't control it. So every once in a while and she had dementia symptoms very badly and everybody would have said, Oh, she has dementia and everyone. So all they'd have, she'd lose so much blood, they'd have to take her to the hospital for a transfusion and they'd bring her home because they were living with me, they'd bring her home and she was almost as good as new. So, you know, I hate to say this to you, Barton, but maybe your grandma or your mother had dementia, and maybe she didn't, because at that point and that's kind of my whole my whole thesis here is, is that you need, you know, when when you're a certain age, they just assume that the symptoms are something wrong with your brain. And and often it's not. And in the old days they always just there's dementia, you know, deal with it, lock them up, do whatever. And today people are getting better about saying, you know what, let's look and see. Maybe it's something else. I mean, I know my mother, if if if they had treated my mother for what she really had, she would have been much better off and she wouldn't have had dementia. So, I mean, I certainly suffered through what you suffered through with your mother. It but but there's a lot of myths that's like I started out with Tim. Dementia is one of the most misdiagnosed things. It's overdiagnosed because too many people get that diagnosis that don't have it. In a way, I kind of feel sorry for younger people that they they're exposed to so much pressure from television. Yep, YouTube and everything for every every disease and everything. Everybody's trying to sell something. And it's like, I think the most important thing is to be able to filter out a lot of this. It is going on today. And it's harder to do it now than it was when we were kids. Most definitely. A young child growing up, he was six years old and he's got to hear about, uh, dysfunction and all this kind of stuff. Why do you have to deal with that when you're a child? You know. It's I kind of worry about, you know, when we were kids, we never had we never had playgroups. What's a playgroup where you went out and play, right? But now they have to spend all everything for these poor kids. It must be a way somebody see it. I don't know. Probably. Probably how to find shyness. And Sierra, how do you guys deal with it? How do I deal with the, uh, constantly being reminded of different ways I'm going to pass away? Um, all right. Um. There. We're not laughing. You know, That was good. I will try to be funny with that. Uh. Laughing with you. Not at you. Okay, good. Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, no, um, I like what you're saying, Grandpa, because you're right. I every single second, every, every, uh, I'm a self improvement type of person in the algorithm. No. Um, and so I go on YouTube, I go anywhere and there is always something that I can improve on with. I just ask anxiety, you know, this is like, this isn't cool. I didn't have to know this. I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't have to. I didn't need a I didn't need another mirror to show me a different spot that I didn't need to see. But at the same time, who knows? You know, I feel like a little I feel growth. I feel like I, I think I've been like, they're now over here thinking about how messed up the ageism is. Thing is like, they're segregating y'all. They put in your little, like, little houses over there, just kind of keep you away from us. It's just so funny. I'm just like, uh, just nerding out over, like, the. Just the, um, how bad it is. This is. This is bad is, uh, I, I don't know if it's just as bad as racism, but do you For what? I don't know. I bet there's a lot of, a lot of like if someone this drug and people up you know this for just this all this stuff sounds if it was a different age if you were like you were saying if this was someone else's if I was a 30 year old person, they would give me all these drugs all the time and doing all this and I was acting up, I, I don't know it. They might shoot me too. Who knows? Uh, and I don't know. I don't. There's much less chance that they would have given you all those drugs. Yes, Yes. You know, I get. That. It's. Yeah, well, though, although being black, there is more of a chance for you than there is for Bryant Brandon. That they misdiagnosed you than there is Brandon. You all know who Serena Williams is, of course. Yeah, right. Serena Williams. Okay. Yeah, she's black. Obviously. She in her own right. She's a multimillionaire. She's married to a white guy who's a billionaire. So, okay. When she went to the hospital to have her baby when she was in labor, there was something wrong going on. And she tried to tell the doctors that and they wouldn't pay any attention to her. They pay less attention to women than they do men, and they pay less attention to black people than they do to white people. And there she was with all of her privilege that she does have. It wasn't doing her any good at that moment. So. So you might actually you have more of a chance of being overmedicated than not to say that it would never happen to Brandon, But you have more sense than Brandon does, But also when you're older, they tend to do it more to older people in general than they do to younger people, because again, it's just like, well, it must be dementia with medication. What if you're well, what if you're old black woman would be that they probably just the. People that. I need to go call my mom as soon as I get out of this and tell her to watch. Out. Let me tell you, you know, and if you want to contact me, I or have your mom contact me. I mean, and you know, there's this guy is Dr. Canterbury, who I love dearly. And he's African-American, by the way, but he's in Durham close to me. But they're starting to be pharmacies all over the country who are doing this d prescribing. And what they will do is look at somebody's medications and tell them how they're interacting with each other because. No, but your doctor won't tell you that. The doctors don't tell you that. But but these pharmacies, these specific pharmacies, you know, the ones that work at Walmart will tell you that. But these specific pharmacies, pharmacies will do it. So if you're if your mom wants to know, have her contact me and I'll hook her up with somebody. Okay? All right. We will fight for you. Things are getting better. Excuse me? I said, thankfully, things in that respect are getting better. Well, there are, because there are people who are starting to pay attention to it. And of course, the pharmaceutical industry, you know, they're making a lot of money off all this medication, so they're not liking it so much. But but, yes, you're right, Barton, It is getting better because there are people like my friend Dr. Canterbury. Yeah. But yeah, I know you go find it. I'm more of a random thought. This is random stuff because I was learning about what is it? Cognitive dissonance. And this has been ringing pretty hard on a lot of stuff we they're talking about right now because I'm trying to put my parents or people order into a house, you know, even though they're okay it. But then it's like, I don't know, I'm still learning about this and this is so I'm trying to but there's a little bit what you're saying that I'm like, I think I read something recently about like trying to make sense of something that is not sensical. Like, like the whole you know, what you're saying about the knees. You're like, oh, one knee hurts and the other one doesn't hurt. Well, I don't think people are always thinking about that. Is that is that kind of cool cognitive justice? Is that something are they like. You know, just also it's also having two thoughts that contradict each other And I'm and I'm going to I'm going to say this one and I don't know how it's it's people who say they are pro-life. Right. And and you know what that means? That usually means that they're against abortion, which is fine. And that's not why I'm bringing it up. But they say they're pro-life, yet at the same time, they they they're against anybody that can't pay for it. Having medical care. So that's cognitive dissonance, because how can you be pro-life when you're willing to let all these people die because they don't have medical care? Do you see? But yet they insist they're pro-life and they also insist. So what's the reason, though, when they have an explanation for it? That's the cognitive dissonance, right? So when they justify and they go, oh, because of this, right. Now, people who have cognitive dissonance often don't realize that, like these people who say they are pro-life believe it, even though they're also trying to pass laws to get medical care taken away from people who don't have enough money and they will fight to the death to say, well, that's got nothing to do with this, when in fact, how can you be pro-life if you think that people should be denied medical care because of money? You hit the nail on the head and then they have and then they get headaches because then they have to build up all these reasons why what they're saying makes sense and isn't contradictory. And that's cognitive. Having to convince people of something that that is contradictory, trying and having to convince people that it's not contradictory. That's cognitive dissonance. All right. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Okay. That's all I had to say. Brain and the everything else. Well, now. Now I know you're a liberal, Margo. Oh, I proudly. Yes. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. And I grew up with I grew up in a town and with parents who were, as we call it, yellow dog Republicans, Goldwater conservatives. And they were and I know they were all good people. They're not like the conservatives of today at all. My father would be, oh, God, It would be like ripping his heart out if he saw what was going on in the Republican Party today. But because I know that people like that, you know, have been decent, it's not happening today so much. So that's that's just my thought. Not the fair minded people at all. No, no. And again, I mean, you know, it's even like, you know, they insist that a woman not have an abortion, but they won't. But they don't think she should have medical care either. So if the baby or if the baby dies because for lack of medical care before it's born, that's okay. You know, cognitive dissonance. And again, they believe it on some level, unconsciously, they have to know that that is wrong. But they also consciously have to believe it and defend it. Since when do people act rationally? Well, some people do. Some people do. Although there's a you know, you can be too rational and that's not good. I there's a TV show on is an old TV show but I like to watch reruns called Bones. And there was this one of the interns was this very rational guy. And he was so rational that when he met someone who gave him this argument that you need to kill people in order to save the world, it made rational sense to him. So you can be too rational too. Anyway, I brought that up, but. Is that irrational? Well, if you think you're really rational, anything you can make anything sound rational. That was kind of the point of that story. But and he had no way of thinking outside of rationality. So he had to if something was being told to him by somebody he respected, he had to make it rational. Margot The human mind is very complex and confusing, let's just put it that way. How is that? Do you have a family that. I have a daughter and a son in law who's the best son in law in the universe, and two gorgeous grandchildren, Nico and Catalina, who live up in New Jersey. Nice. Yeah. How old are your grandchildren? Well, Nico will be 17 in June, and Catalina will be 13 in September. So they're at that age and they're gorgeous and all sorts of wonderful good things. I have a I strong. Oh, no. Go. No, no, you go ahead. Well, no, I was just on your page. You had all these really interesting things about you, and I wondered if it came from your grandchildren that inspired it. But like, what responsibilities do the generations have to each other and ageism affecting young people and mixing the generate? I mean, it's so like specific to our podcast. It's almost like weird, you know, that. I just had this thought I read somewhere where there are I something like, you know, 27 billion or trillion. I don't even remember the number, different kinds of good bacteria that human beings can carry around. Obviously all have billions of them on our own bodies, but none of us can have all of them. Right. And one of the good things about touching each other, even even just shaking hands is that's a way that we transfer bacteria, good bacteria. We don't just transfer bad germs to each other. We transfer good bacteria back and forth to each other. And that's what keeps that. That's what keeps us all healthier. We need bacteria from other people. And and I think it's the same thing with gender, with the generations. I mean, I know things that younger people don't know and they can learn from me. I've learned things from younger people. But what we want when we get ourselves in these, like, you know, we can only deal with our own generation and every other generation is an enemy. And we all live separately from each other. We can't either pollinate, I guess, for lack of a better word. I remember when I went to the University of Iowa when I was 18 and and we came home at Thanksgiving, and it was so weird because I didn't think this was especially good. I was like, you know, it's been two months since I've seen anybody that wasn't, you know, that was older than 25. And I realized that even at 18, I didn't especially like that. I mean, I didn't think it was all that great. I mean, it would have been nice to have it more mixed. So even at 18, I knew better than to have us all be separated. I, I feel that at least in the sense that I, I didn't go to college, but whenever I did go to universities with my friends to see that, I just felt like it was so unreal. Like, this feels like, yeah, who's the who's the tiny mayor here? Because this is like somebody's little kids, right? Yeah, It's unreal when you're 18 and in college and it's unreal when you're 70 and in a senior housing, it's unreal. It's it's unreal and doesn't help anybody. I don't think it helps anybody. Not at all. I don't know if I answered your question, Brandon, but. Well, I guess just is it is it when you had grand kids that you really started to think about this or because it's a very interesting thing. Grandpa always used to say to me, he's like, I hated being around old people. Well, I will tell you, when I was a kid, my, my had, you know, siblings and I had cousins and but of all of her siblings, she was the only one that made her children sit. And we would go visit grandma. And grandma had had a stroke and she had dementia symptoms because of the stroke. But they always said it was because Grandpa spoiled her too much. But that's that's another issue. But but, but Mom used to make us sit and listen to Grandma talk about the days back in. My grandmother was born. No, she was born in Canada, but she grew up when she was a little kid in Los Angeles, and she used to talk about how she could walk from one end of Los Angeles to the other all by herself. Yeah, imagine that. But. But sometimes they didn't like listening to the stories, mainly because, you know, after a while you'd heard them before, but I also didn't hate it. And and and I wasn't very old before I started thinking, Oh, my God, these are useful stories. These are these are things that that I can use in my life. So I was probably pretty young. And and I appreciate that my mother did that. Her her siblings did not make their children do that. But my my mom and dad did. I'm certainly glad for it now. But I was even I think I even liked it then. Sometimes I complained about it, you know, you know how kids are. But I think even back then, I kind of I kind of liked it. The first time I, I worked with older people. I was like in my late twenties, it was this big building. They don't even have that kind of facility anymore. But I remember as a three story building and they and most of the people were ambulatory and they were pretty high. They were pretty functioning. And there was this rule that that they couldn't if they went anywhere in an elevator. One of the staff had to push the buttons for them because they weren't them. It was three story building. They weren't allowed to push buttons. So I get on the elevator and some say, What would you push for three for me? And I'm, I would say, Well, why should I do it? You can do it. Oh, well, we're not supposed to. And I'd say, do it, you know, do it. And sometimes we would take them into town and oh, God, the owner who was like, there was this guy. He was and this was in western New Jersey, and he was a very wealthy contract owner and he had three daughters. And every time one would graduate from high school, he'd build a big facility for 500 people that one of those girls could run. Speaking of the wonders of capitalism. But anyway, I remember they were trying to insist that when we took people to town that we would wear blazers with it and over intermediate care center it. And we were arguing. We're saying we don't want to do that. And the reason we don't want to do that is because these people don't want to be looked at as residents of the care center when they're in town. They hardly ever get there. They want to be seen as a regular person. And I and she actually said, this 20 year old something actually said, you know, you are worried entirely too much about the welfare of these people and not enough about the image of this facility. Oh, my God. Yes, she said it. She said it. Yeah. Well, I mean, needless to say, I didn't last very long. And I mean, I did get fired, which I used to be proud of, until I realized that that was just because they didn't want to pay me. Mean, I was getting like $7,000 a year, but they didn't want to pay me anymore. At first I thought it was because I'd done something cool, but it was more just because they didn't want to part with $7,000 a year. So. So I did get fired from that place. But even then, so even then I kind of was like, No, this isn't the way it should be at all. So I guess I've always been a little more woke on the subject. And now certainly that I'm 75, I don't want to be treated. I want to tell people I want people to know that I'm an old woman because am I don't want to be treated how they think old people should be treated. How's that? Same for you too, Grandma. And grandpa, too. I got myself a young woman. She's only 76. Got. Well, you do. I mean. Well, she's older than I am, but not much. Not much, but yeah, it's, you know, we're not treated for who we are. We're treated for how old we are, and that does nobody any good. And there's also, you know, ageism is is one of these isms that, I mean, you know, white people who are racist against black people and brown people are never going to be black or brown. But young people who are just against old people, you know, you're doing that to yourself because one of these days, you know, this the system that you're building up where old people such as and thank you for asking. Barton Such as Joe Biden, I mean, someday you're going to be Joe Biden's age. Are you going to want people to think you can't do anything? So so so it's actually a form of an ism that you perpetrate against your future self, because hopefully we'll all get there. Nobody wants to die. Young may not. Be as sharp, but you have more knowledge. Exactly. And you have more wisdom, Hopefully. Yes. And it balances out. I mean, yes. I mean, you know, one of the things I said when I was 45, I had a I had a job at a in an agency where I saw a lot of people and I had a private practice at night. So I saw a lot of people. I did not have to keep a date book. And if somebody would call me up and they'd say, I want an appointment with you, I knew when I had an opening I did not have to keep a date book. Now, not only do I have to keep a date book, I look at it three or four times a day. So. So yes, as Barton says, my you know, my memory is not as good as it used to be. But that does not mean that I can't be a great therapist. And it certainly doesn't mean I have dementia. I'm going to argue that with you even more A in a good way and that's a bad way. I think that to act someone, anybody in my age group, in my age, we have we our memory I couldn't remember I, I can't remember dates. I have everything in my phone. I don't have to use my mind for that. I can use my mind for other things like caring about old people. So it's not that I don't think that maybe it's your brain, maybe it's just that we have you don't have to use it as much. You don't to use that, you know, you don't have to use that. You have other things that it may that you have technology helping you out more than it is for you. You probably have this is those memories, you know. Well, I remember a time when I knew and Barton does, too, I'll guarantee you. I knew the telephone number of everybody that all of my friends and all my family I knew there, if I had to call them, I had I knew how to punch in their number. I barely know my own telephone number anymore because we don't have to. Okay, I get it. That's a good number. I would have to get like a degree in math to think about remembering more. Now, that's a number. I don't know. Yeah, we had a lot of computer. It has. And sometimes it's for the I mean, there's good stuff about it. I mean, we wouldn't know each other or be talking to each other if it weren't for computers. And sometimes it really takes a lot. Sometimes it really sucks because sometimes it just really takes stuff out of us. I. I know, I know that 150 Pokemon really, really well. So I guess there's other things I can use. These things I don't have to use the phone numbers. The other. Day. Very nice meeting you. I have to move on. You guys can continue. I've got to get back to bed. I've got to know where we're right at 830. Grandpa, give us your last thought and we'll do our last stuff. Little bit about myself. Uh, just by listening to Margo, It's been a very interesting podcast. Would say. I enjoyed. I enjoyed it. Amazing. Thanks so much, Grandpa. Phines? What's your last thought? Oh, great. Great Talking to, you. Margo. I am going to, uh, tell Mom about you, and hopefully we get in touch with that. So because I think it is still an issue with all the stuff you're saying with ageism and racism still on. And I definitely think that, um, women of color that are getting older said, Yeah, take check it out and learn about this stuff. Because I, you know, it's a thing and it's so prevalent. Um, so. You know, one of the things Dr. Canterbury says is this because of this overmedication besides people are getting symptoms, people are dying, they're killing people because of it, because it does kill people. So, yeah, I would love to talk with your mom. Thank you, Sierra We've. Had like a string of dementia related episodes and it's like, interesting, but like, real depressing. Too. The stats basically tell us now that, like, I think, What did we say last time? Like, all of us or one in five of us is like death, like basically on the about to get dementia. It was something crazy. So I appreciate you coming in and alleviating some of the doom and gloom. If anybody binge watches, you know, the binge listen to the podcast. I know, I know we're stopping, but since you brought that up, Sierra, I must say this first place I have to say the Alzheimer's Association is a great organization. Alzheimer's is real, it's a horrible thing and they need to give them money because they need to stop it. However, in order to get the money, they also sometimes present statistics in ways that make it sound worse than it is. People come in and tell me 12% of everybody's going to have Alzheimer's. Well, first place that's not that high. It's a lot less than cancer. But what they don't say because it isn't often told to them that 12% is only for people in their nineties and above. So even people in their nineties, it's only 12% people in their eighties and seventies. It's much lower, but people hear is they hear the 12% and then they think it's and like you said Sierra and I you know I'm so happy you gave me the opportunity to to talk about this in a different way people in their seventies and eighties it's really a much lower and most people in their nineties aren't going to get it either. But it scares us all so much. And then we get scared, we get anxious, and then we're more likely to have dementia symptoms because of the anxiety. I'll stop. Yes, but thank you, Sierra. Yes, thank you. But it's been very nice to have you back. I would love to have you back on the show. You know, I love the ageism ages talks are very interesting. Yeah, I would love to come back, by the way. I'm just telling everybody. So feel. Free. And I love your post and. You invited us. You invited us on your YouTube channel, right? Well, it's not on the YouTube channel. I have two things. One, I have my own I have my own. It's just alive. It goes on. It goes on my LinkedIn and two of my Facebook pages. It's live. And then usually people that come on can use it and post it or I do it on. Have you ever heard a stream your love stream yard if you if you if you're connected to stream yard which you can do for free, you can also have it on your LinkedIn page in your face. So it's but I do it live. And then I also the people that are helping me promote my course, we do it. We do another live that we do, and you're welcome to come do either one of them and we'll work it out. See my baby and she gorgeous. But we'll work it out. If you'd like to do it, I'd love to have you and Grandpa. Margot, what's your last thought before we wrap up so Grandpa can get out of here? I'm just so excited that you have this podcast with a grandfather and a grandson. I mean, I want. I just want to get on rooftops in and show to everybody that this exists. There's a lot of cool podcasts, but this is the one that got me so excited. Yeah, I want to say that I am always looking for something that like fits in with the theme of the show because we go all over the place. But this is like the logline and you're such a lovely and amazing guest and so perfectly fit into the show. Thank you so much for coming on as always. Thank you. Phines, Sierra. Grandpa, I love you. You can that. Oh, what does it say? What does it say? Look up. It says look up Age. Out loud at. Your age out loud Whoa, Don't forget to like it. And comment also about, like the videos and kind of what? Oh, yes, yes. All all your stuff will be here is very graciously putting in the show notes. But shout out your your links and stuff real quick. Oh, your perfect retirement living dot com is a great place to go that that'll help protect you from all the people that are trying to make you go places you don't want to go your perfect retirement dot com or age out loud on YouTube or age out loud on Facebook. And I'm on LinkedIn. People would like if you know if you want to connect and mention that you heard me here, I'd be happy to connect with you. And I also have because I wrote a book called You Can Keep Your Parents Home, You can Keep your parents home, keep your job in your life, save your fortune and your sanity, which is about it's half of it is about And I intermix it, but half, 50% of it is about a program that if you want to have your parents come and live with you when they're older, how to do it. And the other 50% is I did it with my parents and the joys and the mistakes that we made, which is partly how I got my, my, my thing. But anyway, so I have that book and that's on. And they'll be more. They'll be more. I'm not I can't imagine retiring. I just can't imagine ever doing it so. Well thank you so much again. Margo is really awesome having you on. I love all you guys. I want to Sure, I want to sing. Cierra. Got to go to the old episodes you got to. On our YouTube. You got over.